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Can a Way of Shadow Monk use Shadow Step to cling to a dark ceiling?


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4












$begingroup$


Shadow step says you can teleport up to 60 feet to an empty space from one dimly lit or dark space to another. Does that include the ceiling of a dungeon?



Thematically it fits for a ninja to appear along walls/ceilings. But does "empty space" mean ground necessarily according to the rules?



Abuse case (rather than use case):



I'm playing a Way of Shadow Loxodon. I plan to Shadow Step to the ceiling above a creature to crash down on top of them with my roughly 400 lbs of Elephant-man.



Is this legal? (Yes, DMs can rule whatever, we've already figured it out for our group. I want to know if it is officially illegal to Shadow Step to a ceiling within range.)










share|improve this question











$endgroup$








  • 3




    $begingroup$
    The title question may be a bit misleading. If I understand correctly you do not actually want to stay at the ceiling, merely appear there and instantly fall, right?
    $endgroup$
    – Sdjz
    28 mins ago








  • 4




    $begingroup$
    What do you mean by "cling" to the ceiling?
    $endgroup$
    – Rubiksmoose
    25 mins ago










  • $begingroup$
    Related: Can a monk, falling with an enemy they have grappled, use their slow fall ability to reduce their falling damage and not that of the enemy?
    $endgroup$
    – Rubiksmoose
    8 mins ago
















4












$begingroup$


Shadow step says you can teleport up to 60 feet to an empty space from one dimly lit or dark space to another. Does that include the ceiling of a dungeon?



Thematically it fits for a ninja to appear along walls/ceilings. But does "empty space" mean ground necessarily according to the rules?



Abuse case (rather than use case):



I'm playing a Way of Shadow Loxodon. I plan to Shadow Step to the ceiling above a creature to crash down on top of them with my roughly 400 lbs of Elephant-man.



Is this legal? (Yes, DMs can rule whatever, we've already figured it out for our group. I want to know if it is officially illegal to Shadow Step to a ceiling within range.)










share|improve this question











$endgroup$








  • 3




    $begingroup$
    The title question may be a bit misleading. If I understand correctly you do not actually want to stay at the ceiling, merely appear there and instantly fall, right?
    $endgroup$
    – Sdjz
    28 mins ago








  • 4




    $begingroup$
    What do you mean by "cling" to the ceiling?
    $endgroup$
    – Rubiksmoose
    25 mins ago










  • $begingroup$
    Related: Can a monk, falling with an enemy they have grappled, use their slow fall ability to reduce their falling damage and not that of the enemy?
    $endgroup$
    – Rubiksmoose
    8 mins ago














4












4








4





$begingroup$


Shadow step says you can teleport up to 60 feet to an empty space from one dimly lit or dark space to another. Does that include the ceiling of a dungeon?



Thematically it fits for a ninja to appear along walls/ceilings. But does "empty space" mean ground necessarily according to the rules?



Abuse case (rather than use case):



I'm playing a Way of Shadow Loxodon. I plan to Shadow Step to the ceiling above a creature to crash down on top of them with my roughly 400 lbs of Elephant-man.



Is this legal? (Yes, DMs can rule whatever, we've already figured it out for our group. I want to know if it is officially illegal to Shadow Step to a ceiling within range.)










share|improve this question











$endgroup$




Shadow step says you can teleport up to 60 feet to an empty space from one dimly lit or dark space to another. Does that include the ceiling of a dungeon?



Thematically it fits for a ninja to appear along walls/ceilings. But does "empty space" mean ground necessarily according to the rules?



Abuse case (rather than use case):



I'm playing a Way of Shadow Loxodon. I plan to Shadow Step to the ceiling above a creature to crash down on top of them with my roughly 400 lbs of Elephant-man.



Is this legal? (Yes, DMs can rule whatever, we've already figured it out for our group. I want to know if it is officially illegal to Shadow Step to a ceiling within range.)







dnd-5e class-feature monk teleportation






share|improve this question















share|improve this question













share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited 8 mins ago









V2Blast

23.1k374146




23.1k374146










asked 32 mins ago









Nick TydryszewskiNick Tydryszewski

3745




3745








  • 3




    $begingroup$
    The title question may be a bit misleading. If I understand correctly you do not actually want to stay at the ceiling, merely appear there and instantly fall, right?
    $endgroup$
    – Sdjz
    28 mins ago








  • 4




    $begingroup$
    What do you mean by "cling" to the ceiling?
    $endgroup$
    – Rubiksmoose
    25 mins ago










  • $begingroup$
    Related: Can a monk, falling with an enemy they have grappled, use their slow fall ability to reduce their falling damage and not that of the enemy?
    $endgroup$
    – Rubiksmoose
    8 mins ago














  • 3




    $begingroup$
    The title question may be a bit misleading. If I understand correctly you do not actually want to stay at the ceiling, merely appear there and instantly fall, right?
    $endgroup$
    – Sdjz
    28 mins ago








  • 4




    $begingroup$
    What do you mean by "cling" to the ceiling?
    $endgroup$
    – Rubiksmoose
    25 mins ago










  • $begingroup$
    Related: Can a monk, falling with an enemy they have grappled, use their slow fall ability to reduce their falling damage and not that of the enemy?
    $endgroup$
    – Rubiksmoose
    8 mins ago








3




3




$begingroup$
The title question may be a bit misleading. If I understand correctly you do not actually want to stay at the ceiling, merely appear there and instantly fall, right?
$endgroup$
– Sdjz
28 mins ago






$begingroup$
The title question may be a bit misleading. If I understand correctly you do not actually want to stay at the ceiling, merely appear there and instantly fall, right?
$endgroup$
– Sdjz
28 mins ago






4




4




$begingroup$
What do you mean by "cling" to the ceiling?
$endgroup$
– Rubiksmoose
25 mins ago




$begingroup$
What do you mean by "cling" to the ceiling?
$endgroup$
– Rubiksmoose
25 mins ago












$begingroup$
Related: Can a monk, falling with an enemy they have grappled, use their slow fall ability to reduce their falling damage and not that of the enemy?
$endgroup$
– Rubiksmoose
8 mins ago




$begingroup$
Related: Can a monk, falling with an enemy they have grappled, use their slow fall ability to reduce their falling damage and not that of the enemy?
$endgroup$
– Rubiksmoose
8 mins ago










2 Answers
2






active

oldest

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5












$begingroup$

Yes, it is legal



The Way of Shadow monk's Shadow Step feature (PHB, p. 80) says:




At 6th level, you gain the ability to step from one shadow into another. When you are in dim light or darkness, as a bonus action you can teleport up to 60 feet to an unoccupied space you can see that is also in dim light or darkness. You then have advantage on the first melee attack you make before the end of the turn.




An unoccupied point in space is an unoccupied point in space. There's no clarifying rule that it requires ground beneath your feat. Clinging to the ceiling is a different matter that your DM will handle (Usually climb speed will factor into this), but merely teleporting there and falling is a simple matter.



I wouldn't call it abuse either. If you fall onto someone, you're going to take about as much damage as you deal. Shadow Step is made to cover great distances and allow cool maneuvers. And a Bonus Action isn't nothing either. Most of your monk features require this bonus action.






share|improve this answer











$endgroup$





















    3












    $begingroup$

    If they can see it, it is legal to teleport to the ceiling




    When you are in dim light or darkness, as a bonus action you can teleport up to 60 feet to an unoccupied space you can see that is also in dim light or darkness.




    As long as nothing else is occupying that ceiling tile and you can see the space, you can teleport there. There is nothing that specifies any kind of restriction to the direction or place that is valid for teleportation. Spells/abilities that limit themselves to the ground for example explicitly say "ground" in the description.



    Clinging to the ceiling is up to the DM



    The rules don't define any rules for clinging to ceilings. But they don't disallow it. So the DM would first have to decide if the action is even viable. For example, are there handholds on the ceiling? If the DM decides that it is not viable to do so, they would either inform the player beforehand or the player would get there, find out, then start falling.



    If the DM allows it they would likely call for an ability check and decide what DC the check should be. If the players beats the DC they can cling and the DM will once again have to figure out how to adjudicate it.



    Damaging your opponent by falling on them is completely up to the DM



    Nothing in the rules says that creatures take damage from another creature falling on them or how much that damage should be. Your DM will have to adjudicate this.



    Note, however, that since you are falling, you are going to take fall damage for sure. From 60 feet up you will take 6d6 of damage. Depending on how your DM rules, you may actually take more damage then you do to your opponent.






    share|improve this answer











    $endgroup$













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      2 Answers
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      2 Answers
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      5












      $begingroup$

      Yes, it is legal



      The Way of Shadow monk's Shadow Step feature (PHB, p. 80) says:




      At 6th level, you gain the ability to step from one shadow into another. When you are in dim light or darkness, as a bonus action you can teleport up to 60 feet to an unoccupied space you can see that is also in dim light or darkness. You then have advantage on the first melee attack you make before the end of the turn.




      An unoccupied point in space is an unoccupied point in space. There's no clarifying rule that it requires ground beneath your feat. Clinging to the ceiling is a different matter that your DM will handle (Usually climb speed will factor into this), but merely teleporting there and falling is a simple matter.



      I wouldn't call it abuse either. If you fall onto someone, you're going to take about as much damage as you deal. Shadow Step is made to cover great distances and allow cool maneuvers. And a Bonus Action isn't nothing either. Most of your monk features require this bonus action.






      share|improve this answer











      $endgroup$


















        5












        $begingroup$

        Yes, it is legal



        The Way of Shadow monk's Shadow Step feature (PHB, p. 80) says:




        At 6th level, you gain the ability to step from one shadow into another. When you are in dim light or darkness, as a bonus action you can teleport up to 60 feet to an unoccupied space you can see that is also in dim light or darkness. You then have advantage on the first melee attack you make before the end of the turn.




        An unoccupied point in space is an unoccupied point in space. There's no clarifying rule that it requires ground beneath your feat. Clinging to the ceiling is a different matter that your DM will handle (Usually climb speed will factor into this), but merely teleporting there and falling is a simple matter.



        I wouldn't call it abuse either. If you fall onto someone, you're going to take about as much damage as you deal. Shadow Step is made to cover great distances and allow cool maneuvers. And a Bonus Action isn't nothing either. Most of your monk features require this bonus action.






        share|improve this answer











        $endgroup$
















          5












          5








          5





          $begingroup$

          Yes, it is legal



          The Way of Shadow monk's Shadow Step feature (PHB, p. 80) says:




          At 6th level, you gain the ability to step from one shadow into another. When you are in dim light or darkness, as a bonus action you can teleport up to 60 feet to an unoccupied space you can see that is also in dim light or darkness. You then have advantage on the first melee attack you make before the end of the turn.




          An unoccupied point in space is an unoccupied point in space. There's no clarifying rule that it requires ground beneath your feat. Clinging to the ceiling is a different matter that your DM will handle (Usually climb speed will factor into this), but merely teleporting there and falling is a simple matter.



          I wouldn't call it abuse either. If you fall onto someone, you're going to take about as much damage as you deal. Shadow Step is made to cover great distances and allow cool maneuvers. And a Bonus Action isn't nothing either. Most of your monk features require this bonus action.






          share|improve this answer











          $endgroup$



          Yes, it is legal



          The Way of Shadow monk's Shadow Step feature (PHB, p. 80) says:




          At 6th level, you gain the ability to step from one shadow into another. When you are in dim light or darkness, as a bonus action you can teleport up to 60 feet to an unoccupied space you can see that is also in dim light or darkness. You then have advantage on the first melee attack you make before the end of the turn.




          An unoccupied point in space is an unoccupied point in space. There's no clarifying rule that it requires ground beneath your feat. Clinging to the ceiling is a different matter that your DM will handle (Usually climb speed will factor into this), but merely teleporting there and falling is a simple matter.



          I wouldn't call it abuse either. If you fall onto someone, you're going to take about as much damage as you deal. Shadow Step is made to cover great distances and allow cool maneuvers. And a Bonus Action isn't nothing either. Most of your monk features require this bonus action.







          share|improve this answer














          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer








          edited 7 mins ago









          V2Blast

          23.1k374146




          23.1k374146










          answered 27 mins ago









          Premier BromanovPremier Bromanov

          12k644109




          12k644109

























              3












              $begingroup$

              If they can see it, it is legal to teleport to the ceiling




              When you are in dim light or darkness, as a bonus action you can teleport up to 60 feet to an unoccupied space you can see that is also in dim light or darkness.




              As long as nothing else is occupying that ceiling tile and you can see the space, you can teleport there. There is nothing that specifies any kind of restriction to the direction or place that is valid for teleportation. Spells/abilities that limit themselves to the ground for example explicitly say "ground" in the description.



              Clinging to the ceiling is up to the DM



              The rules don't define any rules for clinging to ceilings. But they don't disallow it. So the DM would first have to decide if the action is even viable. For example, are there handholds on the ceiling? If the DM decides that it is not viable to do so, they would either inform the player beforehand or the player would get there, find out, then start falling.



              If the DM allows it they would likely call for an ability check and decide what DC the check should be. If the players beats the DC they can cling and the DM will once again have to figure out how to adjudicate it.



              Damaging your opponent by falling on them is completely up to the DM



              Nothing in the rules says that creatures take damage from another creature falling on them or how much that damage should be. Your DM will have to adjudicate this.



              Note, however, that since you are falling, you are going to take fall damage for sure. From 60 feet up you will take 6d6 of damage. Depending on how your DM rules, you may actually take more damage then you do to your opponent.






              share|improve this answer











              $endgroup$


















                3












                $begingroup$

                If they can see it, it is legal to teleport to the ceiling




                When you are in dim light or darkness, as a bonus action you can teleport up to 60 feet to an unoccupied space you can see that is also in dim light or darkness.




                As long as nothing else is occupying that ceiling tile and you can see the space, you can teleport there. There is nothing that specifies any kind of restriction to the direction or place that is valid for teleportation. Spells/abilities that limit themselves to the ground for example explicitly say "ground" in the description.



                Clinging to the ceiling is up to the DM



                The rules don't define any rules for clinging to ceilings. But they don't disallow it. So the DM would first have to decide if the action is even viable. For example, are there handholds on the ceiling? If the DM decides that it is not viable to do so, they would either inform the player beforehand or the player would get there, find out, then start falling.



                If the DM allows it they would likely call for an ability check and decide what DC the check should be. If the players beats the DC they can cling and the DM will once again have to figure out how to adjudicate it.



                Damaging your opponent by falling on them is completely up to the DM



                Nothing in the rules says that creatures take damage from another creature falling on them or how much that damage should be. Your DM will have to adjudicate this.



                Note, however, that since you are falling, you are going to take fall damage for sure. From 60 feet up you will take 6d6 of damage. Depending on how your DM rules, you may actually take more damage then you do to your opponent.






                share|improve this answer











                $endgroup$
















                  3












                  3








                  3





                  $begingroup$

                  If they can see it, it is legal to teleport to the ceiling




                  When you are in dim light or darkness, as a bonus action you can teleport up to 60 feet to an unoccupied space you can see that is also in dim light or darkness.




                  As long as nothing else is occupying that ceiling tile and you can see the space, you can teleport there. There is nothing that specifies any kind of restriction to the direction or place that is valid for teleportation. Spells/abilities that limit themselves to the ground for example explicitly say "ground" in the description.



                  Clinging to the ceiling is up to the DM



                  The rules don't define any rules for clinging to ceilings. But they don't disallow it. So the DM would first have to decide if the action is even viable. For example, are there handholds on the ceiling? If the DM decides that it is not viable to do so, they would either inform the player beforehand or the player would get there, find out, then start falling.



                  If the DM allows it they would likely call for an ability check and decide what DC the check should be. If the players beats the DC they can cling and the DM will once again have to figure out how to adjudicate it.



                  Damaging your opponent by falling on them is completely up to the DM



                  Nothing in the rules says that creatures take damage from another creature falling on them or how much that damage should be. Your DM will have to adjudicate this.



                  Note, however, that since you are falling, you are going to take fall damage for sure. From 60 feet up you will take 6d6 of damage. Depending on how your DM rules, you may actually take more damage then you do to your opponent.






                  share|improve this answer











                  $endgroup$



                  If they can see it, it is legal to teleport to the ceiling




                  When you are in dim light or darkness, as a bonus action you can teleport up to 60 feet to an unoccupied space you can see that is also in dim light or darkness.




                  As long as nothing else is occupying that ceiling tile and you can see the space, you can teleport there. There is nothing that specifies any kind of restriction to the direction or place that is valid for teleportation. Spells/abilities that limit themselves to the ground for example explicitly say "ground" in the description.



                  Clinging to the ceiling is up to the DM



                  The rules don't define any rules for clinging to ceilings. But they don't disallow it. So the DM would first have to decide if the action is even viable. For example, are there handholds on the ceiling? If the DM decides that it is not viable to do so, they would either inform the player beforehand or the player would get there, find out, then start falling.



                  If the DM allows it they would likely call for an ability check and decide what DC the check should be. If the players beats the DC they can cling and the DM will once again have to figure out how to adjudicate it.



                  Damaging your opponent by falling on them is completely up to the DM



                  Nothing in the rules says that creatures take damage from another creature falling on them or how much that damage should be. Your DM will have to adjudicate this.



                  Note, however, that since you are falling, you are going to take fall damage for sure. From 60 feet up you will take 6d6 of damage. Depending on how your DM rules, you may actually take more damage then you do to your opponent.







                  share|improve this answer














                  share|improve this answer



                  share|improve this answer








                  edited 12 mins ago

























                  answered 23 mins ago









                  RubiksmooseRubiksmoose

                  55.9k9273418




                  55.9k9273418






























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