Examples of non trivial equivalence relations , I mean equivalence relations without the expression “ same...

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Examples of non trivial equivalence relations , I mean equivalence relations without the expression " same ... as" in their definition?

How to reduce LED flash rate (frequency)



Examples of non trivial equivalence relations , I mean equivalence relations without the expression “ same … as” in their definition?


Examples of ordering relations without comparative term in their definition.How do the Properties of Relations work?Non-trivial examples of operations.Partial order up to equivalenceSolution check. How many relations of equivalence $R$ are there in $Bbb N$ that verify silmultaneously the following properties.Finding number of one to one functions given two setsHow many equivalence relations on a 4 element set with a caseEquivalence Relations without EqualityEquivalence relations and their classesIs equality of two fractions ( like $2/10$ and $1/5$) really equality or equivalence?Examples of non trivial ordering relations , I mean ordering relations without apparent comparative term in their definition.













4












$begingroup$


Relations defined by formulas such as " x has the same age as y" , " x comes from the same country as y " " a has the same image under function f as b " are obviously equivalence relations, due to the presence of the expression " same ... as".



Are there many examples of equivalence relations that do not contain this " same ... as" expression and , consequently, that cannot immediately be recognized as equivalence relations?



Are there many examples of equivalence relations that , at first sight, for someone who reads their defining formula for the first time, do not at all look like equivalence relations?



What I am looking for is relations such as



" a is congruent to b ( modulo n) iff n divides a-b"



in which one does not see any " same ... as" .










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Given a set, I can partition it into equivalence classes in any way I like, and this will define an equivalence relation. There is no need for a "same as" property.
    $endgroup$
    – TonyK
    3 hours ago








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Ultimately, "$x$ is in the same $R$-equivalence class as $y$" is always possible
    $endgroup$
    – Hagen von Eitzen
    3 hours ago






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    What about $xoperatorname Ry$ iff $f(y)^2=f(0)f(2x)$ for some non-constant global solution $fcolon Bbb RtoBbb R$ of the differential equation $f'(x)=f(x)$?
    $endgroup$
    – Hagen von Eitzen
    3 hours ago








  • 2




    $begingroup$
    But the intuitive ground of an "equivalence relation" is exactly the fact that different objects have some feature in common between them; thus, different objects are equivalent with respect to that feature exactly when the "value" of that feature is the same.
    $endgroup$
    – Mauro ALLEGRANZA
    3 hours ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    The relationship between subsets of $mathbb R$ where $A sim B$ if and only if their symmetric difference is a null set is an interesting example of a relation which isn't quite trivial and not easily reduced to being in the same preimage of a point under some function.
    $endgroup$
    – John Coleman
    2 hours ago
















4












$begingroup$


Relations defined by formulas such as " x has the same age as y" , " x comes from the same country as y " " a has the same image under function f as b " are obviously equivalence relations, due to the presence of the expression " same ... as".



Are there many examples of equivalence relations that do not contain this " same ... as" expression and , consequently, that cannot immediately be recognized as equivalence relations?



Are there many examples of equivalence relations that , at first sight, for someone who reads their defining formula for the first time, do not at all look like equivalence relations?



What I am looking for is relations such as



" a is congruent to b ( modulo n) iff n divides a-b"



in which one does not see any " same ... as" .










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Given a set, I can partition it into equivalence classes in any way I like, and this will define an equivalence relation. There is no need for a "same as" property.
    $endgroup$
    – TonyK
    3 hours ago








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Ultimately, "$x$ is in the same $R$-equivalence class as $y$" is always possible
    $endgroup$
    – Hagen von Eitzen
    3 hours ago






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    What about $xoperatorname Ry$ iff $f(y)^2=f(0)f(2x)$ for some non-constant global solution $fcolon Bbb RtoBbb R$ of the differential equation $f'(x)=f(x)$?
    $endgroup$
    – Hagen von Eitzen
    3 hours ago








  • 2




    $begingroup$
    But the intuitive ground of an "equivalence relation" is exactly the fact that different objects have some feature in common between them; thus, different objects are equivalent with respect to that feature exactly when the "value" of that feature is the same.
    $endgroup$
    – Mauro ALLEGRANZA
    3 hours ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    The relationship between subsets of $mathbb R$ where $A sim B$ if and only if their symmetric difference is a null set is an interesting example of a relation which isn't quite trivial and not easily reduced to being in the same preimage of a point under some function.
    $endgroup$
    – John Coleman
    2 hours ago














4












4








4





$begingroup$


Relations defined by formulas such as " x has the same age as y" , " x comes from the same country as y " " a has the same image under function f as b " are obviously equivalence relations, due to the presence of the expression " same ... as".



Are there many examples of equivalence relations that do not contain this " same ... as" expression and , consequently, that cannot immediately be recognized as equivalence relations?



Are there many examples of equivalence relations that , at first sight, for someone who reads their defining formula for the first time, do not at all look like equivalence relations?



What I am looking for is relations such as



" a is congruent to b ( modulo n) iff n divides a-b"



in which one does not see any " same ... as" .










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$




Relations defined by formulas such as " x has the same age as y" , " x comes from the same country as y " " a has the same image under function f as b " are obviously equivalence relations, due to the presence of the expression " same ... as".



Are there many examples of equivalence relations that do not contain this " same ... as" expression and , consequently, that cannot immediately be recognized as equivalence relations?



Are there many examples of equivalence relations that , at first sight, for someone who reads their defining formula for the first time, do not at all look like equivalence relations?



What I am looking for is relations such as



" a is congruent to b ( modulo n) iff n divides a-b"



in which one does not see any " same ... as" .







elementary-set-theory






share|cite|improve this question















share|cite|improve this question













share|cite|improve this question




share|cite|improve this question








edited 2 hours ago







Eleonore Saint James

















asked 3 hours ago









Eleonore Saint JamesEleonore Saint James

709115




709115








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Given a set, I can partition it into equivalence classes in any way I like, and this will define an equivalence relation. There is no need for a "same as" property.
    $endgroup$
    – TonyK
    3 hours ago








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Ultimately, "$x$ is in the same $R$-equivalence class as $y$" is always possible
    $endgroup$
    – Hagen von Eitzen
    3 hours ago






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    What about $xoperatorname Ry$ iff $f(y)^2=f(0)f(2x)$ for some non-constant global solution $fcolon Bbb RtoBbb R$ of the differential equation $f'(x)=f(x)$?
    $endgroup$
    – Hagen von Eitzen
    3 hours ago








  • 2




    $begingroup$
    But the intuitive ground of an "equivalence relation" is exactly the fact that different objects have some feature in common between them; thus, different objects are equivalent with respect to that feature exactly when the "value" of that feature is the same.
    $endgroup$
    – Mauro ALLEGRANZA
    3 hours ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    The relationship between subsets of $mathbb R$ where $A sim B$ if and only if their symmetric difference is a null set is an interesting example of a relation which isn't quite trivial and not easily reduced to being in the same preimage of a point under some function.
    $endgroup$
    – John Coleman
    2 hours ago














  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Given a set, I can partition it into equivalence classes in any way I like, and this will define an equivalence relation. There is no need for a "same as" property.
    $endgroup$
    – TonyK
    3 hours ago








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Ultimately, "$x$ is in the same $R$-equivalence class as $y$" is always possible
    $endgroup$
    – Hagen von Eitzen
    3 hours ago






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    What about $xoperatorname Ry$ iff $f(y)^2=f(0)f(2x)$ for some non-constant global solution $fcolon Bbb RtoBbb R$ of the differential equation $f'(x)=f(x)$?
    $endgroup$
    – Hagen von Eitzen
    3 hours ago








  • 2




    $begingroup$
    But the intuitive ground of an "equivalence relation" is exactly the fact that different objects have some feature in common between them; thus, different objects are equivalent with respect to that feature exactly when the "value" of that feature is the same.
    $endgroup$
    – Mauro ALLEGRANZA
    3 hours ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    The relationship between subsets of $mathbb R$ where $A sim B$ if and only if their symmetric difference is a null set is an interesting example of a relation which isn't quite trivial and not easily reduced to being in the same preimage of a point under some function.
    $endgroup$
    – John Coleman
    2 hours ago








1




1




$begingroup$
Given a set, I can partition it into equivalence classes in any way I like, and this will define an equivalence relation. There is no need for a "same as" property.
$endgroup$
– TonyK
3 hours ago






$begingroup$
Given a set, I can partition it into equivalence classes in any way I like, and this will define an equivalence relation. There is no need for a "same as" property.
$endgroup$
– TonyK
3 hours ago






1




1




$begingroup$
Ultimately, "$x$ is in the same $R$-equivalence class as $y$" is always possible
$endgroup$
– Hagen von Eitzen
3 hours ago




$begingroup$
Ultimately, "$x$ is in the same $R$-equivalence class as $y$" is always possible
$endgroup$
– Hagen von Eitzen
3 hours ago




2




2




$begingroup$
What about $xoperatorname Ry$ iff $f(y)^2=f(0)f(2x)$ for some non-constant global solution $fcolon Bbb RtoBbb R$ of the differential equation $f'(x)=f(x)$?
$endgroup$
– Hagen von Eitzen
3 hours ago






$begingroup$
What about $xoperatorname Ry$ iff $f(y)^2=f(0)f(2x)$ for some non-constant global solution $fcolon Bbb RtoBbb R$ of the differential equation $f'(x)=f(x)$?
$endgroup$
– Hagen von Eitzen
3 hours ago






2




2




$begingroup$
But the intuitive ground of an "equivalence relation" is exactly the fact that different objects have some feature in common between them; thus, different objects are equivalent with respect to that feature exactly when the "value" of that feature is the same.
$endgroup$
– Mauro ALLEGRANZA
3 hours ago




$begingroup$
But the intuitive ground of an "equivalence relation" is exactly the fact that different objects have some feature in common between them; thus, different objects are equivalent with respect to that feature exactly when the "value" of that feature is the same.
$endgroup$
– Mauro ALLEGRANZA
3 hours ago




1




1




$begingroup$
The relationship between subsets of $mathbb R$ where $A sim B$ if and only if their symmetric difference is a null set is an interesting example of a relation which isn't quite trivial and not easily reduced to being in the same preimage of a point under some function.
$endgroup$
– John Coleman
2 hours ago




$begingroup$
The relationship between subsets of $mathbb R$ where $A sim B$ if and only if their symmetric difference is a null set is an interesting example of a relation which isn't quite trivial and not easily reduced to being in the same preimage of a point under some function.
$endgroup$
– John Coleman
2 hours ago










4 Answers
4






active

oldest

votes


















5












$begingroup$

A few examples where it doesn't seem easy to find a "has the same _ as" interpretation other than by deriving it from the equivalence relation itself.





  • Let two formulas of the propositional calculus be related if intuitionistic logic proves them to be equivalent.



    (With classical logic this would be the same as "they define the same boolean function", but the situation for intuitionistic logic is not as simple).




  • Let two closed curves in some topological space be related if they are homotopic.



    (They have the same homotopy class, but homotopy classes are themselves defined through this relation).




  • Let two polyhedra be related if one can cut one into a finite number of smaller polyhedra and reassemble them to produce the other.



    (This is actually the same relation as "the two polyhedra have the same volume and the same Dehn invariant", but that is a somewhat deep result).




  • Let two infinite sequences of natural numbers be related if each of them is a subsequence of the other.



    (It feels plausible that one can puzzle out an equivalent characterization with a "has the same _ as" flavor that doesn't feel unnatural, but I wouldn't say it is immediately clear exactly what it would be).




  • Let two sets of natural numbers be related if one is Turing reducible to the other.



    (They have the same Turing degree, but that is defined through this relation).




  • Let two functions from naturals to naturals be related if each is Big Oh of the other as $ntoinfty$.



    (They have the same asymptotic growth rate).




All of the above examples can be readily understood as the equivalence relation induced by a (usually larger) preorder. Here are some where such an interpretation is not quite as natural:





  • Let two sets be related if there exists a bijection between tjem.



    (They have the same cardinailty, but cardinality is defined through this relation. By the Cantor-Bernstein theorem this is also the same as "each has an injection into the other").




  • Let two groups be related if they are isomorphic.



    (Or really any kind of thing you can think of isomorphisms between. Note that for groups this is not the same as "each embeds into the other", which is a different equivalence relation).




  • Let two real functions be related if they coincide on an open neighborhood of $0$.



    (They have the same germ, but that is defined through this relation).




  • Choose a free ultrafilter on $mathbb N$ and let two sequences of real numbers be related if the set of indices where they agree is tn the ultrafilter.



    (This example produces an ultrapower, which is used in non-standard analysis).




Algebraic quotients are a bit of a corner case. You can define the equivalence relation as "generates the same coset as", but it is usually more natural to think of it as "the difference of the elements is in the chosen kernel".






share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$













  • $begingroup$
    @HenningMakholm.Thanks a lot for these examples!
    $endgroup$
    – Eleonore Saint James
    1 hour ago





















6












$begingroup$

As it as been remarked : when you say "same as", for example with "x' has the same age as x" is like saying "a(x')=a(x)" ; otherwise said, $x'$ and $x$ are in the same pre-image $a^{-1}(...)$, for example $a^{-1}(21)$ if both $x$ and $x'$ are 21. There are "as many" equivalence classes as there exists pre-images.



In a reverse way, if you have an equivalence relation on a certain set $S$, it determines a partition of $S$ with cardinal $C$ ("number of classes" with possibly a generalized meaning). You will always be able to build a function $f$ from $S$ to a any set $T$ with cardinality $C$ like ${1,2,...,n}$ or $mathbb{N}$, an interval $[a,b]$, $[a,b)$ of $mathbb{R}$, etc., such that the any equivalence class is mapped onto the same element that we could call a (generalized) "label".



Thus the answer to your question : all equivalence relations can be put into the same "mould" : $x'$ is equivalent to $x$ iff $x'$ has the same "label" as $x$.






share|cite|improve this answer









$endgroup$









  • 2




    $begingroup$
    +1 for the last sentence.
    $endgroup$
    – Ethan Bolker
    3 hours ago



















2












$begingroup$

In $mathbb R$, consider the binary relation $R$ defined by $xmathrel Ry$ if and only if $lvert x-yrvert<1$. It is easy to see that it is not an equivalence relation. But it is an equivalence relation if we restrict to $mathbb Z$.



Of course, you can say that it is an equivalence relation on $mathbb Z$ because then $xmathrel Ryiff x=y$. But you can't avoid something like that: given any set $A$ and any binary relation $R$ defined on $A$, $R$ is an equivalence relation if and only if there is a function $f$ from $A$ into some set $S$ such that$$(forall a,bin A):amathrel Rbiff f(a)=f(b).tag1$$In fact, if there is such a function $f$, then it is clear from $(1)$ that $R$ is an equivalence relation. And if $R$ is an equivalence relation, then let $S={text{equivalence classes of }R}$ and define$$begin{array}{rccc}fcolon&A&longrightarrow&S\&a&mapsto&text{equivalence class of }a.end{array}$$






share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$













  • $begingroup$
    @JoseCalrlosSantos.Thanks. Could you please give a reference in which I could finfd an explanation of this interesting alternative definition of "equivalence relation" in terms of function from A to S.
    $endgroup$
    – Eleonore Saint James
    3 hours ago








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    I'll add it to my answer. Please wait a few minutes.
    $endgroup$
    – José Carlos Santos
    3 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    I've already done it.
    $endgroup$
    – José Carlos Santos
    3 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @JoseCarlosSantos.Thanks.
    $endgroup$
    – Eleonore Saint James
    3 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    The equivalence relation that comes from a surjection $f$ still has the "as same as" form: $a$ is equivalent to $b$ just when $f(a)$ is the same as $f(b)$. As @AnneMarie says, there's no escaping that.
    $endgroup$
    – Ethan Bolker
    2 hours ago



















2












$begingroup$

There are certainly examples of such non-trivial equivalence relations. For example, in graph theory, let $G$ be an (undirected) graph and define the relation $sim$ on its set of vertices as follows:




$a sim b$ if and only if $a$ can be reached from $b$ by traversing a finite chain of edges in $G$.




This is an equivalence relation, as can be easily shown by proving that it is reflexive, symmetric and transitive, but its definition makes no reference to any common property shared by all equivalent vertices.





Of course, as the other answers have noted, any equivalence relation $sim$ divides its domain into equivalence classes, and it's always possible to recharacterize the relation as "$a sim b$ if and only $a$ and $b$ belong to the same equivalence class." In the particular case above, the equivalence classes even have an established name: they're called the connected components of $G$.



But taking that characterization as the definition of $sim$ would make no sense, since the equivalence classes are themselves defined by the relation, and so defining the relation by the equivalence classes would be circular!



As a further demonstration of its non-triviality, it may be worth noting that the relation $sim$ defined above would not necessarily be an equivalence relation if $G$ was a directed graph: in that case, while $sim$ is still clearly reflexive and transitive, it may or may not be symmetric. To actually obtain an equivalence relation in that case, one needs to somehow adjust the definition to force it to be symmetric, e.g. by requiring the existence of a chain of edges in both directions (in which case the equivalence classes thus obtained are the strongly connected components of the graph).






share|cite|improve this answer









$endgroup$













  • $begingroup$
    @llmanKaronen. Thanks for your answer!
    $endgroup$
    – Eleonore Saint James
    1 hour ago












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4 Answers
4






active

oldest

votes








4 Answers
4






active

oldest

votes









active

oldest

votes






active

oldest

votes









5












$begingroup$

A few examples where it doesn't seem easy to find a "has the same _ as" interpretation other than by deriving it from the equivalence relation itself.





  • Let two formulas of the propositional calculus be related if intuitionistic logic proves them to be equivalent.



    (With classical logic this would be the same as "they define the same boolean function", but the situation for intuitionistic logic is not as simple).




  • Let two closed curves in some topological space be related if they are homotopic.



    (They have the same homotopy class, but homotopy classes are themselves defined through this relation).




  • Let two polyhedra be related if one can cut one into a finite number of smaller polyhedra and reassemble them to produce the other.



    (This is actually the same relation as "the two polyhedra have the same volume and the same Dehn invariant", but that is a somewhat deep result).




  • Let two infinite sequences of natural numbers be related if each of them is a subsequence of the other.



    (It feels plausible that one can puzzle out an equivalent characterization with a "has the same _ as" flavor that doesn't feel unnatural, but I wouldn't say it is immediately clear exactly what it would be).




  • Let two sets of natural numbers be related if one is Turing reducible to the other.



    (They have the same Turing degree, but that is defined through this relation).




  • Let two functions from naturals to naturals be related if each is Big Oh of the other as $ntoinfty$.



    (They have the same asymptotic growth rate).




All of the above examples can be readily understood as the equivalence relation induced by a (usually larger) preorder. Here are some where such an interpretation is not quite as natural:





  • Let two sets be related if there exists a bijection between tjem.



    (They have the same cardinailty, but cardinality is defined through this relation. By the Cantor-Bernstein theorem this is also the same as "each has an injection into the other").




  • Let two groups be related if they are isomorphic.



    (Or really any kind of thing you can think of isomorphisms between. Note that for groups this is not the same as "each embeds into the other", which is a different equivalence relation).




  • Let two real functions be related if they coincide on an open neighborhood of $0$.



    (They have the same germ, but that is defined through this relation).




  • Choose a free ultrafilter on $mathbb N$ and let two sequences of real numbers be related if the set of indices where they agree is tn the ultrafilter.



    (This example produces an ultrapower, which is used in non-standard analysis).




Algebraic quotients are a bit of a corner case. You can define the equivalence relation as "generates the same coset as", but it is usually more natural to think of it as "the difference of the elements is in the chosen kernel".






share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$













  • $begingroup$
    @HenningMakholm.Thanks a lot for these examples!
    $endgroup$
    – Eleonore Saint James
    1 hour ago


















5












$begingroup$

A few examples where it doesn't seem easy to find a "has the same _ as" interpretation other than by deriving it from the equivalence relation itself.





  • Let two formulas of the propositional calculus be related if intuitionistic logic proves them to be equivalent.



    (With classical logic this would be the same as "they define the same boolean function", but the situation for intuitionistic logic is not as simple).




  • Let two closed curves in some topological space be related if they are homotopic.



    (They have the same homotopy class, but homotopy classes are themselves defined through this relation).




  • Let two polyhedra be related if one can cut one into a finite number of smaller polyhedra and reassemble them to produce the other.



    (This is actually the same relation as "the two polyhedra have the same volume and the same Dehn invariant", but that is a somewhat deep result).




  • Let two infinite sequences of natural numbers be related if each of them is a subsequence of the other.



    (It feels plausible that one can puzzle out an equivalent characterization with a "has the same _ as" flavor that doesn't feel unnatural, but I wouldn't say it is immediately clear exactly what it would be).




  • Let two sets of natural numbers be related if one is Turing reducible to the other.



    (They have the same Turing degree, but that is defined through this relation).




  • Let two functions from naturals to naturals be related if each is Big Oh of the other as $ntoinfty$.



    (They have the same asymptotic growth rate).




All of the above examples can be readily understood as the equivalence relation induced by a (usually larger) preorder. Here are some where such an interpretation is not quite as natural:





  • Let two sets be related if there exists a bijection between tjem.



    (They have the same cardinailty, but cardinality is defined through this relation. By the Cantor-Bernstein theorem this is also the same as "each has an injection into the other").




  • Let two groups be related if they are isomorphic.



    (Or really any kind of thing you can think of isomorphisms between. Note that for groups this is not the same as "each embeds into the other", which is a different equivalence relation).




  • Let two real functions be related if they coincide on an open neighborhood of $0$.



    (They have the same germ, but that is defined through this relation).




  • Choose a free ultrafilter on $mathbb N$ and let two sequences of real numbers be related if the set of indices where they agree is tn the ultrafilter.



    (This example produces an ultrapower, which is used in non-standard analysis).




Algebraic quotients are a bit of a corner case. You can define the equivalence relation as "generates the same coset as", but it is usually more natural to think of it as "the difference of the elements is in the chosen kernel".






share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$













  • $begingroup$
    @HenningMakholm.Thanks a lot for these examples!
    $endgroup$
    – Eleonore Saint James
    1 hour ago
















5












5








5





$begingroup$

A few examples where it doesn't seem easy to find a "has the same _ as" interpretation other than by deriving it from the equivalence relation itself.





  • Let two formulas of the propositional calculus be related if intuitionistic logic proves them to be equivalent.



    (With classical logic this would be the same as "they define the same boolean function", but the situation for intuitionistic logic is not as simple).




  • Let two closed curves in some topological space be related if they are homotopic.



    (They have the same homotopy class, but homotopy classes are themselves defined through this relation).




  • Let two polyhedra be related if one can cut one into a finite number of smaller polyhedra and reassemble them to produce the other.



    (This is actually the same relation as "the two polyhedra have the same volume and the same Dehn invariant", but that is a somewhat deep result).




  • Let two infinite sequences of natural numbers be related if each of them is a subsequence of the other.



    (It feels plausible that one can puzzle out an equivalent characterization with a "has the same _ as" flavor that doesn't feel unnatural, but I wouldn't say it is immediately clear exactly what it would be).




  • Let two sets of natural numbers be related if one is Turing reducible to the other.



    (They have the same Turing degree, but that is defined through this relation).




  • Let two functions from naturals to naturals be related if each is Big Oh of the other as $ntoinfty$.



    (They have the same asymptotic growth rate).




All of the above examples can be readily understood as the equivalence relation induced by a (usually larger) preorder. Here are some where such an interpretation is not quite as natural:





  • Let two sets be related if there exists a bijection between tjem.



    (They have the same cardinailty, but cardinality is defined through this relation. By the Cantor-Bernstein theorem this is also the same as "each has an injection into the other").




  • Let two groups be related if they are isomorphic.



    (Or really any kind of thing you can think of isomorphisms between. Note that for groups this is not the same as "each embeds into the other", which is a different equivalence relation).




  • Let two real functions be related if they coincide on an open neighborhood of $0$.



    (They have the same germ, but that is defined through this relation).




  • Choose a free ultrafilter on $mathbb N$ and let two sequences of real numbers be related if the set of indices where they agree is tn the ultrafilter.



    (This example produces an ultrapower, which is used in non-standard analysis).




Algebraic quotients are a bit of a corner case. You can define the equivalence relation as "generates the same coset as", but it is usually more natural to think of it as "the difference of the elements is in the chosen kernel".






share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$



A few examples where it doesn't seem easy to find a "has the same _ as" interpretation other than by deriving it from the equivalence relation itself.





  • Let two formulas of the propositional calculus be related if intuitionistic logic proves them to be equivalent.



    (With classical logic this would be the same as "they define the same boolean function", but the situation for intuitionistic logic is not as simple).




  • Let two closed curves in some topological space be related if they are homotopic.



    (They have the same homotopy class, but homotopy classes are themselves defined through this relation).




  • Let two polyhedra be related if one can cut one into a finite number of smaller polyhedra and reassemble them to produce the other.



    (This is actually the same relation as "the two polyhedra have the same volume and the same Dehn invariant", but that is a somewhat deep result).




  • Let two infinite sequences of natural numbers be related if each of them is a subsequence of the other.



    (It feels plausible that one can puzzle out an equivalent characterization with a "has the same _ as" flavor that doesn't feel unnatural, but I wouldn't say it is immediately clear exactly what it would be).




  • Let two sets of natural numbers be related if one is Turing reducible to the other.



    (They have the same Turing degree, but that is defined through this relation).




  • Let two functions from naturals to naturals be related if each is Big Oh of the other as $ntoinfty$.



    (They have the same asymptotic growth rate).




All of the above examples can be readily understood as the equivalence relation induced by a (usually larger) preorder. Here are some where such an interpretation is not quite as natural:





  • Let two sets be related if there exists a bijection between tjem.



    (They have the same cardinailty, but cardinality is defined through this relation. By the Cantor-Bernstein theorem this is also the same as "each has an injection into the other").




  • Let two groups be related if they are isomorphic.



    (Or really any kind of thing you can think of isomorphisms between. Note that for groups this is not the same as "each embeds into the other", which is a different equivalence relation).




  • Let two real functions be related if they coincide on an open neighborhood of $0$.



    (They have the same germ, but that is defined through this relation).




  • Choose a free ultrafilter on $mathbb N$ and let two sequences of real numbers be related if the set of indices where they agree is tn the ultrafilter.



    (This example produces an ultrapower, which is used in non-standard analysis).




Algebraic quotients are a bit of a corner case. You can define the equivalence relation as "generates the same coset as", but it is usually more natural to think of it as "the difference of the elements is in the chosen kernel".







share|cite|improve this answer














share|cite|improve this answer



share|cite|improve this answer








edited 34 mins ago

























answered 1 hour ago









Henning MakholmHenning Makholm

244k17313557




244k17313557












  • $begingroup$
    @HenningMakholm.Thanks a lot for these examples!
    $endgroup$
    – Eleonore Saint James
    1 hour ago




















  • $begingroup$
    @HenningMakholm.Thanks a lot for these examples!
    $endgroup$
    – Eleonore Saint James
    1 hour ago


















$begingroup$
@HenningMakholm.Thanks a lot for these examples!
$endgroup$
– Eleonore Saint James
1 hour ago






$begingroup$
@HenningMakholm.Thanks a lot for these examples!
$endgroup$
– Eleonore Saint James
1 hour ago













6












$begingroup$

As it as been remarked : when you say "same as", for example with "x' has the same age as x" is like saying "a(x')=a(x)" ; otherwise said, $x'$ and $x$ are in the same pre-image $a^{-1}(...)$, for example $a^{-1}(21)$ if both $x$ and $x'$ are 21. There are "as many" equivalence classes as there exists pre-images.



In a reverse way, if you have an equivalence relation on a certain set $S$, it determines a partition of $S$ with cardinal $C$ ("number of classes" with possibly a generalized meaning). You will always be able to build a function $f$ from $S$ to a any set $T$ with cardinality $C$ like ${1,2,...,n}$ or $mathbb{N}$, an interval $[a,b]$, $[a,b)$ of $mathbb{R}$, etc., such that the any equivalence class is mapped onto the same element that we could call a (generalized) "label".



Thus the answer to your question : all equivalence relations can be put into the same "mould" : $x'$ is equivalent to $x$ iff $x'$ has the same "label" as $x$.






share|cite|improve this answer









$endgroup$









  • 2




    $begingroup$
    +1 for the last sentence.
    $endgroup$
    – Ethan Bolker
    3 hours ago
















6












$begingroup$

As it as been remarked : when you say "same as", for example with "x' has the same age as x" is like saying "a(x')=a(x)" ; otherwise said, $x'$ and $x$ are in the same pre-image $a^{-1}(...)$, for example $a^{-1}(21)$ if both $x$ and $x'$ are 21. There are "as many" equivalence classes as there exists pre-images.



In a reverse way, if you have an equivalence relation on a certain set $S$, it determines a partition of $S$ with cardinal $C$ ("number of classes" with possibly a generalized meaning). You will always be able to build a function $f$ from $S$ to a any set $T$ with cardinality $C$ like ${1,2,...,n}$ or $mathbb{N}$, an interval $[a,b]$, $[a,b)$ of $mathbb{R}$, etc., such that the any equivalence class is mapped onto the same element that we could call a (generalized) "label".



Thus the answer to your question : all equivalence relations can be put into the same "mould" : $x'$ is equivalent to $x$ iff $x'$ has the same "label" as $x$.






share|cite|improve this answer









$endgroup$









  • 2




    $begingroup$
    +1 for the last sentence.
    $endgroup$
    – Ethan Bolker
    3 hours ago














6












6








6





$begingroup$

As it as been remarked : when you say "same as", for example with "x' has the same age as x" is like saying "a(x')=a(x)" ; otherwise said, $x'$ and $x$ are in the same pre-image $a^{-1}(...)$, for example $a^{-1}(21)$ if both $x$ and $x'$ are 21. There are "as many" equivalence classes as there exists pre-images.



In a reverse way, if you have an equivalence relation on a certain set $S$, it determines a partition of $S$ with cardinal $C$ ("number of classes" with possibly a generalized meaning). You will always be able to build a function $f$ from $S$ to a any set $T$ with cardinality $C$ like ${1,2,...,n}$ or $mathbb{N}$, an interval $[a,b]$, $[a,b)$ of $mathbb{R}$, etc., such that the any equivalence class is mapped onto the same element that we could call a (generalized) "label".



Thus the answer to your question : all equivalence relations can be put into the same "mould" : $x'$ is equivalent to $x$ iff $x'$ has the same "label" as $x$.






share|cite|improve this answer









$endgroup$



As it as been remarked : when you say "same as", for example with "x' has the same age as x" is like saying "a(x')=a(x)" ; otherwise said, $x'$ and $x$ are in the same pre-image $a^{-1}(...)$, for example $a^{-1}(21)$ if both $x$ and $x'$ are 21. There are "as many" equivalence classes as there exists pre-images.



In a reverse way, if you have an equivalence relation on a certain set $S$, it determines a partition of $S$ with cardinal $C$ ("number of classes" with possibly a generalized meaning). You will always be able to build a function $f$ from $S$ to a any set $T$ with cardinality $C$ like ${1,2,...,n}$ or $mathbb{N}$, an interval $[a,b]$, $[a,b)$ of $mathbb{R}$, etc., such that the any equivalence class is mapped onto the same element that we could call a (generalized) "label".



Thus the answer to your question : all equivalence relations can be put into the same "mould" : $x'$ is equivalent to $x$ iff $x'$ has the same "label" as $x$.







share|cite|improve this answer












share|cite|improve this answer



share|cite|improve this answer










answered 3 hours ago









Jean MarieJean Marie

31.7k42355




31.7k42355








  • 2




    $begingroup$
    +1 for the last sentence.
    $endgroup$
    – Ethan Bolker
    3 hours ago














  • 2




    $begingroup$
    +1 for the last sentence.
    $endgroup$
    – Ethan Bolker
    3 hours ago








2




2




$begingroup$
+1 for the last sentence.
$endgroup$
– Ethan Bolker
3 hours ago




$begingroup$
+1 for the last sentence.
$endgroup$
– Ethan Bolker
3 hours ago











2












$begingroup$

In $mathbb R$, consider the binary relation $R$ defined by $xmathrel Ry$ if and only if $lvert x-yrvert<1$. It is easy to see that it is not an equivalence relation. But it is an equivalence relation if we restrict to $mathbb Z$.



Of course, you can say that it is an equivalence relation on $mathbb Z$ because then $xmathrel Ryiff x=y$. But you can't avoid something like that: given any set $A$ and any binary relation $R$ defined on $A$, $R$ is an equivalence relation if and only if there is a function $f$ from $A$ into some set $S$ such that$$(forall a,bin A):amathrel Rbiff f(a)=f(b).tag1$$In fact, if there is such a function $f$, then it is clear from $(1)$ that $R$ is an equivalence relation. And if $R$ is an equivalence relation, then let $S={text{equivalence classes of }R}$ and define$$begin{array}{rccc}fcolon&A&longrightarrow&S\&a&mapsto&text{equivalence class of }a.end{array}$$






share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$













  • $begingroup$
    @JoseCalrlosSantos.Thanks. Could you please give a reference in which I could finfd an explanation of this interesting alternative definition of "equivalence relation" in terms of function from A to S.
    $endgroup$
    – Eleonore Saint James
    3 hours ago








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    I'll add it to my answer. Please wait a few minutes.
    $endgroup$
    – José Carlos Santos
    3 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    I've already done it.
    $endgroup$
    – José Carlos Santos
    3 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @JoseCarlosSantos.Thanks.
    $endgroup$
    – Eleonore Saint James
    3 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    The equivalence relation that comes from a surjection $f$ still has the "as same as" form: $a$ is equivalent to $b$ just when $f(a)$ is the same as $f(b)$. As @AnneMarie says, there's no escaping that.
    $endgroup$
    – Ethan Bolker
    2 hours ago
















2












$begingroup$

In $mathbb R$, consider the binary relation $R$ defined by $xmathrel Ry$ if and only if $lvert x-yrvert<1$. It is easy to see that it is not an equivalence relation. But it is an equivalence relation if we restrict to $mathbb Z$.



Of course, you can say that it is an equivalence relation on $mathbb Z$ because then $xmathrel Ryiff x=y$. But you can't avoid something like that: given any set $A$ and any binary relation $R$ defined on $A$, $R$ is an equivalence relation if and only if there is a function $f$ from $A$ into some set $S$ such that$$(forall a,bin A):amathrel Rbiff f(a)=f(b).tag1$$In fact, if there is such a function $f$, then it is clear from $(1)$ that $R$ is an equivalence relation. And if $R$ is an equivalence relation, then let $S={text{equivalence classes of }R}$ and define$$begin{array}{rccc}fcolon&A&longrightarrow&S\&a&mapsto&text{equivalence class of }a.end{array}$$






share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$













  • $begingroup$
    @JoseCalrlosSantos.Thanks. Could you please give a reference in which I could finfd an explanation of this interesting alternative definition of "equivalence relation" in terms of function from A to S.
    $endgroup$
    – Eleonore Saint James
    3 hours ago








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    I'll add it to my answer. Please wait a few minutes.
    $endgroup$
    – José Carlos Santos
    3 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    I've already done it.
    $endgroup$
    – José Carlos Santos
    3 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @JoseCarlosSantos.Thanks.
    $endgroup$
    – Eleonore Saint James
    3 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    The equivalence relation that comes from a surjection $f$ still has the "as same as" form: $a$ is equivalent to $b$ just when $f(a)$ is the same as $f(b)$. As @AnneMarie says, there's no escaping that.
    $endgroup$
    – Ethan Bolker
    2 hours ago














2












2








2





$begingroup$

In $mathbb R$, consider the binary relation $R$ defined by $xmathrel Ry$ if and only if $lvert x-yrvert<1$. It is easy to see that it is not an equivalence relation. But it is an equivalence relation if we restrict to $mathbb Z$.



Of course, you can say that it is an equivalence relation on $mathbb Z$ because then $xmathrel Ryiff x=y$. But you can't avoid something like that: given any set $A$ and any binary relation $R$ defined on $A$, $R$ is an equivalence relation if and only if there is a function $f$ from $A$ into some set $S$ such that$$(forall a,bin A):amathrel Rbiff f(a)=f(b).tag1$$In fact, if there is such a function $f$, then it is clear from $(1)$ that $R$ is an equivalence relation. And if $R$ is an equivalence relation, then let $S={text{equivalence classes of }R}$ and define$$begin{array}{rccc}fcolon&A&longrightarrow&S\&a&mapsto&text{equivalence class of }a.end{array}$$






share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$



In $mathbb R$, consider the binary relation $R$ defined by $xmathrel Ry$ if and only if $lvert x-yrvert<1$. It is easy to see that it is not an equivalence relation. But it is an equivalence relation if we restrict to $mathbb Z$.



Of course, you can say that it is an equivalence relation on $mathbb Z$ because then $xmathrel Ryiff x=y$. But you can't avoid something like that: given any set $A$ and any binary relation $R$ defined on $A$, $R$ is an equivalence relation if and only if there is a function $f$ from $A$ into some set $S$ such that$$(forall a,bin A):amathrel Rbiff f(a)=f(b).tag1$$In fact, if there is such a function $f$, then it is clear from $(1)$ that $R$ is an equivalence relation. And if $R$ is an equivalence relation, then let $S={text{equivalence classes of }R}$ and define$$begin{array}{rccc}fcolon&A&longrightarrow&S\&a&mapsto&text{equivalence class of }a.end{array}$$







share|cite|improve this answer














share|cite|improve this answer



share|cite|improve this answer








edited 3 hours ago

























answered 3 hours ago









José Carlos SantosJosé Carlos Santos

178k24139251




178k24139251












  • $begingroup$
    @JoseCalrlosSantos.Thanks. Could you please give a reference in which I could finfd an explanation of this interesting alternative definition of "equivalence relation" in terms of function from A to S.
    $endgroup$
    – Eleonore Saint James
    3 hours ago








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    I'll add it to my answer. Please wait a few minutes.
    $endgroup$
    – José Carlos Santos
    3 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    I've already done it.
    $endgroup$
    – José Carlos Santos
    3 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @JoseCarlosSantos.Thanks.
    $endgroup$
    – Eleonore Saint James
    3 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    The equivalence relation that comes from a surjection $f$ still has the "as same as" form: $a$ is equivalent to $b$ just when $f(a)$ is the same as $f(b)$. As @AnneMarie says, there's no escaping that.
    $endgroup$
    – Ethan Bolker
    2 hours ago


















  • $begingroup$
    @JoseCalrlosSantos.Thanks. Could you please give a reference in which I could finfd an explanation of this interesting alternative definition of "equivalence relation" in terms of function from A to S.
    $endgroup$
    – Eleonore Saint James
    3 hours ago








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    I'll add it to my answer. Please wait a few minutes.
    $endgroup$
    – José Carlos Santos
    3 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    I've already done it.
    $endgroup$
    – José Carlos Santos
    3 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @JoseCarlosSantos.Thanks.
    $endgroup$
    – Eleonore Saint James
    3 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    The equivalence relation that comes from a surjection $f$ still has the "as same as" form: $a$ is equivalent to $b$ just when $f(a)$ is the same as $f(b)$. As @AnneMarie says, there's no escaping that.
    $endgroup$
    – Ethan Bolker
    2 hours ago
















$begingroup$
@JoseCalrlosSantos.Thanks. Could you please give a reference in which I could finfd an explanation of this interesting alternative definition of "equivalence relation" in terms of function from A to S.
$endgroup$
– Eleonore Saint James
3 hours ago






$begingroup$
@JoseCalrlosSantos.Thanks. Could you please give a reference in which I could finfd an explanation of this interesting alternative definition of "equivalence relation" in terms of function from A to S.
$endgroup$
– Eleonore Saint James
3 hours ago






1




1




$begingroup$
I'll add it to my answer. Please wait a few minutes.
$endgroup$
– José Carlos Santos
3 hours ago




$begingroup$
I'll add it to my answer. Please wait a few minutes.
$endgroup$
– José Carlos Santos
3 hours ago












$begingroup$
I've already done it.
$endgroup$
– José Carlos Santos
3 hours ago




$begingroup$
I've already done it.
$endgroup$
– José Carlos Santos
3 hours ago












$begingroup$
@JoseCarlosSantos.Thanks.
$endgroup$
– Eleonore Saint James
3 hours ago




$begingroup$
@JoseCarlosSantos.Thanks.
$endgroup$
– Eleonore Saint James
3 hours ago












$begingroup$
The equivalence relation that comes from a surjection $f$ still has the "as same as" form: $a$ is equivalent to $b$ just when $f(a)$ is the same as $f(b)$. As @AnneMarie says, there's no escaping that.
$endgroup$
– Ethan Bolker
2 hours ago




$begingroup$
The equivalence relation that comes from a surjection $f$ still has the "as same as" form: $a$ is equivalent to $b$ just when $f(a)$ is the same as $f(b)$. As @AnneMarie says, there's no escaping that.
$endgroup$
– Ethan Bolker
2 hours ago











2












$begingroup$

There are certainly examples of such non-trivial equivalence relations. For example, in graph theory, let $G$ be an (undirected) graph and define the relation $sim$ on its set of vertices as follows:




$a sim b$ if and only if $a$ can be reached from $b$ by traversing a finite chain of edges in $G$.




This is an equivalence relation, as can be easily shown by proving that it is reflexive, symmetric and transitive, but its definition makes no reference to any common property shared by all equivalent vertices.





Of course, as the other answers have noted, any equivalence relation $sim$ divides its domain into equivalence classes, and it's always possible to recharacterize the relation as "$a sim b$ if and only $a$ and $b$ belong to the same equivalence class." In the particular case above, the equivalence classes even have an established name: they're called the connected components of $G$.



But taking that characterization as the definition of $sim$ would make no sense, since the equivalence classes are themselves defined by the relation, and so defining the relation by the equivalence classes would be circular!



As a further demonstration of its non-triviality, it may be worth noting that the relation $sim$ defined above would not necessarily be an equivalence relation if $G$ was a directed graph: in that case, while $sim$ is still clearly reflexive and transitive, it may or may not be symmetric. To actually obtain an equivalence relation in that case, one needs to somehow adjust the definition to force it to be symmetric, e.g. by requiring the existence of a chain of edges in both directions (in which case the equivalence classes thus obtained are the strongly connected components of the graph).






share|cite|improve this answer









$endgroup$













  • $begingroup$
    @llmanKaronen. Thanks for your answer!
    $endgroup$
    – Eleonore Saint James
    1 hour ago
















2












$begingroup$

There are certainly examples of such non-trivial equivalence relations. For example, in graph theory, let $G$ be an (undirected) graph and define the relation $sim$ on its set of vertices as follows:




$a sim b$ if and only if $a$ can be reached from $b$ by traversing a finite chain of edges in $G$.




This is an equivalence relation, as can be easily shown by proving that it is reflexive, symmetric and transitive, but its definition makes no reference to any common property shared by all equivalent vertices.





Of course, as the other answers have noted, any equivalence relation $sim$ divides its domain into equivalence classes, and it's always possible to recharacterize the relation as "$a sim b$ if and only $a$ and $b$ belong to the same equivalence class." In the particular case above, the equivalence classes even have an established name: they're called the connected components of $G$.



But taking that characterization as the definition of $sim$ would make no sense, since the equivalence classes are themselves defined by the relation, and so defining the relation by the equivalence classes would be circular!



As a further demonstration of its non-triviality, it may be worth noting that the relation $sim$ defined above would not necessarily be an equivalence relation if $G$ was a directed graph: in that case, while $sim$ is still clearly reflexive and transitive, it may or may not be symmetric. To actually obtain an equivalence relation in that case, one needs to somehow adjust the definition to force it to be symmetric, e.g. by requiring the existence of a chain of edges in both directions (in which case the equivalence classes thus obtained are the strongly connected components of the graph).






share|cite|improve this answer









$endgroup$













  • $begingroup$
    @llmanKaronen. Thanks for your answer!
    $endgroup$
    – Eleonore Saint James
    1 hour ago














2












2








2





$begingroup$

There are certainly examples of such non-trivial equivalence relations. For example, in graph theory, let $G$ be an (undirected) graph and define the relation $sim$ on its set of vertices as follows:




$a sim b$ if and only if $a$ can be reached from $b$ by traversing a finite chain of edges in $G$.




This is an equivalence relation, as can be easily shown by proving that it is reflexive, symmetric and transitive, but its definition makes no reference to any common property shared by all equivalent vertices.





Of course, as the other answers have noted, any equivalence relation $sim$ divides its domain into equivalence classes, and it's always possible to recharacterize the relation as "$a sim b$ if and only $a$ and $b$ belong to the same equivalence class." In the particular case above, the equivalence classes even have an established name: they're called the connected components of $G$.



But taking that characterization as the definition of $sim$ would make no sense, since the equivalence classes are themselves defined by the relation, and so defining the relation by the equivalence classes would be circular!



As a further demonstration of its non-triviality, it may be worth noting that the relation $sim$ defined above would not necessarily be an equivalence relation if $G$ was a directed graph: in that case, while $sim$ is still clearly reflexive and transitive, it may or may not be symmetric. To actually obtain an equivalence relation in that case, one needs to somehow adjust the definition to force it to be symmetric, e.g. by requiring the existence of a chain of edges in both directions (in which case the equivalence classes thus obtained are the strongly connected components of the graph).






share|cite|improve this answer









$endgroup$



There are certainly examples of such non-trivial equivalence relations. For example, in graph theory, let $G$ be an (undirected) graph and define the relation $sim$ on its set of vertices as follows:




$a sim b$ if and only if $a$ can be reached from $b$ by traversing a finite chain of edges in $G$.




This is an equivalence relation, as can be easily shown by proving that it is reflexive, symmetric and transitive, but its definition makes no reference to any common property shared by all equivalent vertices.





Of course, as the other answers have noted, any equivalence relation $sim$ divides its domain into equivalence classes, and it's always possible to recharacterize the relation as "$a sim b$ if and only $a$ and $b$ belong to the same equivalence class." In the particular case above, the equivalence classes even have an established name: they're called the connected components of $G$.



But taking that characterization as the definition of $sim$ would make no sense, since the equivalence classes are themselves defined by the relation, and so defining the relation by the equivalence classes would be circular!



As a further demonstration of its non-triviality, it may be worth noting that the relation $sim$ defined above would not necessarily be an equivalence relation if $G$ was a directed graph: in that case, while $sim$ is still clearly reflexive and transitive, it may or may not be symmetric. To actually obtain an equivalence relation in that case, one needs to somehow adjust the definition to force it to be symmetric, e.g. by requiring the existence of a chain of edges in both directions (in which case the equivalence classes thus obtained are the strongly connected components of the graph).







share|cite|improve this answer












share|cite|improve this answer



share|cite|improve this answer










answered 1 hour ago









Ilmari KaronenIlmari Karonen

20.2k25286




20.2k25286












  • $begingroup$
    @llmanKaronen. Thanks for your answer!
    $endgroup$
    – Eleonore Saint James
    1 hour ago


















  • $begingroup$
    @llmanKaronen. Thanks for your answer!
    $endgroup$
    – Eleonore Saint James
    1 hour ago
















$begingroup$
@llmanKaronen. Thanks for your answer!
$endgroup$
– Eleonore Saint James
1 hour ago




$begingroup$
@llmanKaronen. Thanks for your answer!
$endgroup$
– Eleonore Saint James
1 hour ago


















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