Decoupling User Stories in Agile DevelopmentHow to keep CRUD user stories from being trite and...

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Decoupling User Stories in Agile Development


How to keep CRUD user stories from being trite and simplistic?Managing re-usable code in user-centric agile stories?What electronic user-story-mapping tools can you recommend?Contracting out software development; deliver user stories or business requirements?I would like to improve in writing goal-oriented user stories/featuresUser stories as a contract definition?How to deal with user interface design and respective feature support in Agile development?How can I specify user stories for processes with third-party involvement?Which should be done first: use cases or user stories?Shared Development Tasks for Agile User StoriesUser Stories and Epics






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}







2















Based on what I've read, user stories are often cast in a "who", "what", and "why" format, i.e. "[Who] wants the system to do [What], so that [Why]". The "who" and "what" seem easy to grasp. For the example of an ATM:




As a customer

I want to be able to deposit money

[Why]




The "why" line seems like it could have a significant impact on the scope of the software. For example, all of the following seem like reasonable justifications for the feature; however, the first implies security, insurance, data redundancy, etc...; the second and third imply the existence entirely separate systems; and all three imply data persistence.




So that it will be protected by the bank

So that I can manage my finances online

So that make payments with my debit card




To put it briefly, within the context of agile software development, how are complex/coupled functional requirements handled so that they can be sanely developed?



For example, would the development team derive sets of use cases from such high-level user stories? Or would they re-write the user stories so that they had a limited scope?










share|improve this question

























  • Strongly related: How to keep CRUD user stories from being trite and simplistic. In short, your user stories are not specific enough.

    – Robert Harvey
    6 hours ago




















2















Based on what I've read, user stories are often cast in a "who", "what", and "why" format, i.e. "[Who] wants the system to do [What], so that [Why]". The "who" and "what" seem easy to grasp. For the example of an ATM:




As a customer

I want to be able to deposit money

[Why]




The "why" line seems like it could have a significant impact on the scope of the software. For example, all of the following seem like reasonable justifications for the feature; however, the first implies security, insurance, data redundancy, etc...; the second and third imply the existence entirely separate systems; and all three imply data persistence.




So that it will be protected by the bank

So that I can manage my finances online

So that make payments with my debit card




To put it briefly, within the context of agile software development, how are complex/coupled functional requirements handled so that they can be sanely developed?



For example, would the development team derive sets of use cases from such high-level user stories? Or would they re-write the user stories so that they had a limited scope?










share|improve this question

























  • Strongly related: How to keep CRUD user stories from being trite and simplistic. In short, your user stories are not specific enough.

    – Robert Harvey
    6 hours ago
















2












2








2








Based on what I've read, user stories are often cast in a "who", "what", and "why" format, i.e. "[Who] wants the system to do [What], so that [Why]". The "who" and "what" seem easy to grasp. For the example of an ATM:




As a customer

I want to be able to deposit money

[Why]




The "why" line seems like it could have a significant impact on the scope of the software. For example, all of the following seem like reasonable justifications for the feature; however, the first implies security, insurance, data redundancy, etc...; the second and third imply the existence entirely separate systems; and all three imply data persistence.




So that it will be protected by the bank

So that I can manage my finances online

So that make payments with my debit card




To put it briefly, within the context of agile software development, how are complex/coupled functional requirements handled so that they can be sanely developed?



For example, would the development team derive sets of use cases from such high-level user stories? Or would they re-write the user stories so that they had a limited scope?










share|improve this question
















Based on what I've read, user stories are often cast in a "who", "what", and "why" format, i.e. "[Who] wants the system to do [What], so that [Why]". The "who" and "what" seem easy to grasp. For the example of an ATM:




As a customer

I want to be able to deposit money

[Why]




The "why" line seems like it could have a significant impact on the scope of the software. For example, all of the following seem like reasonable justifications for the feature; however, the first implies security, insurance, data redundancy, etc...; the second and third imply the existence entirely separate systems; and all three imply data persistence.




So that it will be protected by the bank

So that I can manage my finances online

So that make payments with my debit card




To put it briefly, within the context of agile software development, how are complex/coupled functional requirements handled so that they can be sanely developed?



For example, would the development team derive sets of use cases from such high-level user stories? Or would they re-write the user stories so that they had a limited scope?







agile development-process user-story use-case






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edited 2 hours ago









Engineert

466314




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asked 7 hours ago









Nolan LuckettNolan Luckett

193




193













  • Strongly related: How to keep CRUD user stories from being trite and simplistic. In short, your user stories are not specific enough.

    – Robert Harvey
    6 hours ago





















  • Strongly related: How to keep CRUD user stories from being trite and simplistic. In short, your user stories are not specific enough.

    – Robert Harvey
    6 hours ago



















Strongly related: How to keep CRUD user stories from being trite and simplistic. In short, your user stories are not specific enough.

– Robert Harvey
6 hours ago







Strongly related: How to keep CRUD user stories from being trite and simplistic. In short, your user stories are not specific enough.

– Robert Harvey
6 hours ago












4 Answers
4






active

oldest

votes


















4














The one-sentence wording of a user story is not meant to be the carrier of the functional requirements. It's only a summary. The full details behind this user story are clarified through a two-way conversation between the product owner and the team shortly before the sprint (at the sprint planning meeting, or shortly before at a back log grooming meeting). There is no need for a formal record of those requirements, but if desired, the product owner can record the most important conclusions of this conversation in the form of acceptance criteria.



If a user story is too vague in the beginning, then the product owner should simply provide more information and answer questions from the team. Only if the team concludes that it's too big for one sprint, then the product owner needs to split the story: Replace it by multiple user stories (often with help from the team).



So to get back to your question:




How are complex functional requirements handled?





  1. They are broken down in user stories small enough to swallow in one sprint.

  2. These user stories are clarified through conversation, shortly before the sprint






share|improve this answer































    3















    The "why" line seems like it could have a significant impact on the scope of the software.




    No, the why doesn't affect the scope of the software at all. It is a justification for the story, but not a requirement that the story must fulfill. It exists to help the developer understand the importance of the story, and possibly how it fits into the big picture.






    share|improve this answer































      2














      Hmm I don't think any of those whys are useful for a user story.



      The why in this format is suppose to give insight to the developer so that they don't follow the letter of the spec rather than the spirit of it.



      Additional your User type "Customer" is possibly unhelpful. I would go with..



      As a: _BankAccountOwner_
      I want to: pay money into my bank account,
      from another banks debit card,
      by filling in a form online
      So that: I can later withdraw it.


      Now the developer knows that its the BankAccountOwner type of customer that's doing this, so they can fit it in with their other stories.



      They know the general specification of the thing we are trying to achieve, "deposit money via webpage"



      And they know the expectation of the user, "They will be able to withdraw the money later" and so include any technical details that will be needed, (bit hard in this limited example but ..)




      • It should go to the users bank account not someone else's

      • It shouldn't automatically pay off loans or anything

      • Don't accept money if the bank is going bust

      • Warn the customer if for whatever reason they wont be able to withdraw for X days


      The Why enables a briefer specification and can prompt questions from the developer where they might be required. "Other Story Y says we should always pay off the loans first?" etc



      On your second point "how do you do stuff from such high level stories?" Well your example is pretty high level. You'll notice I had to add some details to it as well as the other changes. But generally you just do them and add more. eg



      as a _BankAccountOwner_
      I want to : pay money into my account
      with a credit card... etc

      as a _BankAccountOwner_
      when paying money into my account
      I want to : be told my current balance


      In a case like banking you probably have a million and one requirements in advance, because they are so well known. But normally you either have an existing system in place which you are adding to, or you are starting from really basic "Sprint Zero" stuff



      As a: _Bank_
      I want to : have a website
      so that : I can provide services to _BankAccountOwner_

      As a: _Bank_
      I want to : have an ssl cert for my website
      so that : I comply with laws X, Y and Z


      etc






      share|improve this answer

































        1














        There are a few other answers, but I think this is missed in the others:



        The why here isn't why I want to deposit money in a bank account (as opposed to my mattress). The why is why I want to do it through the ATM. The answer to this can influence the functionality.



        For example, if the why is "so I can deposit and use my money even after the bank is closed" then simply taking the money or check without applying a deposit transaction to my bank account doesn't fulfill the user need.






        share|improve this answer
























          Your Answer








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          4 Answers
          4






          active

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          4 Answers
          4






          active

          oldest

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          active

          oldest

          votes






          active

          oldest

          votes









          4














          The one-sentence wording of a user story is not meant to be the carrier of the functional requirements. It's only a summary. The full details behind this user story are clarified through a two-way conversation between the product owner and the team shortly before the sprint (at the sprint planning meeting, or shortly before at a back log grooming meeting). There is no need for a formal record of those requirements, but if desired, the product owner can record the most important conclusions of this conversation in the form of acceptance criteria.



          If a user story is too vague in the beginning, then the product owner should simply provide more information and answer questions from the team. Only if the team concludes that it's too big for one sprint, then the product owner needs to split the story: Replace it by multiple user stories (often with help from the team).



          So to get back to your question:




          How are complex functional requirements handled?





          1. They are broken down in user stories small enough to swallow in one sprint.

          2. These user stories are clarified through conversation, shortly before the sprint






          share|improve this answer




























            4














            The one-sentence wording of a user story is not meant to be the carrier of the functional requirements. It's only a summary. The full details behind this user story are clarified through a two-way conversation between the product owner and the team shortly before the sprint (at the sprint planning meeting, or shortly before at a back log grooming meeting). There is no need for a formal record of those requirements, but if desired, the product owner can record the most important conclusions of this conversation in the form of acceptance criteria.



            If a user story is too vague in the beginning, then the product owner should simply provide more information and answer questions from the team. Only if the team concludes that it's too big for one sprint, then the product owner needs to split the story: Replace it by multiple user stories (often with help from the team).



            So to get back to your question:




            How are complex functional requirements handled?





            1. They are broken down in user stories small enough to swallow in one sprint.

            2. These user stories are clarified through conversation, shortly before the sprint






            share|improve this answer


























              4












              4








              4







              The one-sentence wording of a user story is not meant to be the carrier of the functional requirements. It's only a summary. The full details behind this user story are clarified through a two-way conversation between the product owner and the team shortly before the sprint (at the sprint planning meeting, or shortly before at a back log grooming meeting). There is no need for a formal record of those requirements, but if desired, the product owner can record the most important conclusions of this conversation in the form of acceptance criteria.



              If a user story is too vague in the beginning, then the product owner should simply provide more information and answer questions from the team. Only if the team concludes that it's too big for one sprint, then the product owner needs to split the story: Replace it by multiple user stories (often with help from the team).



              So to get back to your question:




              How are complex functional requirements handled?





              1. They are broken down in user stories small enough to swallow in one sprint.

              2. These user stories are clarified through conversation, shortly before the sprint






              share|improve this answer













              The one-sentence wording of a user story is not meant to be the carrier of the functional requirements. It's only a summary. The full details behind this user story are clarified through a two-way conversation between the product owner and the team shortly before the sprint (at the sprint planning meeting, or shortly before at a back log grooming meeting). There is no need for a formal record of those requirements, but if desired, the product owner can record the most important conclusions of this conversation in the form of acceptance criteria.



              If a user story is too vague in the beginning, then the product owner should simply provide more information and answer questions from the team. Only if the team concludes that it's too big for one sprint, then the product owner needs to split the story: Replace it by multiple user stories (often with help from the team).



              So to get back to your question:




              How are complex functional requirements handled?





              1. They are broken down in user stories small enough to swallow in one sprint.

              2. These user stories are clarified through conversation, shortly before the sprint







              share|improve this answer












              share|improve this answer



              share|improve this answer










              answered 5 hours ago









              Kris Van BaelKris Van Bael

              1,200510




              1,200510

























                  3















                  The "why" line seems like it could have a significant impact on the scope of the software.




                  No, the why doesn't affect the scope of the software at all. It is a justification for the story, but not a requirement that the story must fulfill. It exists to help the developer understand the importance of the story, and possibly how it fits into the big picture.






                  share|improve this answer




























                    3















                    The "why" line seems like it could have a significant impact on the scope of the software.




                    No, the why doesn't affect the scope of the software at all. It is a justification for the story, but not a requirement that the story must fulfill. It exists to help the developer understand the importance of the story, and possibly how it fits into the big picture.






                    share|improve this answer


























                      3












                      3








                      3








                      The "why" line seems like it could have a significant impact on the scope of the software.




                      No, the why doesn't affect the scope of the software at all. It is a justification for the story, but not a requirement that the story must fulfill. It exists to help the developer understand the importance of the story, and possibly how it fits into the big picture.






                      share|improve this answer














                      The "why" line seems like it could have a significant impact on the scope of the software.




                      No, the why doesn't affect the scope of the software at all. It is a justification for the story, but not a requirement that the story must fulfill. It exists to help the developer understand the importance of the story, and possibly how it fits into the big picture.







                      share|improve this answer












                      share|improve this answer



                      share|improve this answer










                      answered 6 hours ago









                      Bryan OakleyBryan Oakley

                      22.9k55184




                      22.9k55184























                          2














                          Hmm I don't think any of those whys are useful for a user story.



                          The why in this format is suppose to give insight to the developer so that they don't follow the letter of the spec rather than the spirit of it.



                          Additional your User type "Customer" is possibly unhelpful. I would go with..



                          As a: _BankAccountOwner_
                          I want to: pay money into my bank account,
                          from another banks debit card,
                          by filling in a form online
                          So that: I can later withdraw it.


                          Now the developer knows that its the BankAccountOwner type of customer that's doing this, so they can fit it in with their other stories.



                          They know the general specification of the thing we are trying to achieve, "deposit money via webpage"



                          And they know the expectation of the user, "They will be able to withdraw the money later" and so include any technical details that will be needed, (bit hard in this limited example but ..)




                          • It should go to the users bank account not someone else's

                          • It shouldn't automatically pay off loans or anything

                          • Don't accept money if the bank is going bust

                          • Warn the customer if for whatever reason they wont be able to withdraw for X days


                          The Why enables a briefer specification and can prompt questions from the developer where they might be required. "Other Story Y says we should always pay off the loans first?" etc



                          On your second point "how do you do stuff from such high level stories?" Well your example is pretty high level. You'll notice I had to add some details to it as well as the other changes. But generally you just do them and add more. eg



                          as a _BankAccountOwner_
                          I want to : pay money into my account
                          with a credit card... etc

                          as a _BankAccountOwner_
                          when paying money into my account
                          I want to : be told my current balance


                          In a case like banking you probably have a million and one requirements in advance, because they are so well known. But normally you either have an existing system in place which you are adding to, or you are starting from really basic "Sprint Zero" stuff



                          As a: _Bank_
                          I want to : have a website
                          so that : I can provide services to _BankAccountOwner_

                          As a: _Bank_
                          I want to : have an ssl cert for my website
                          so that : I comply with laws X, Y and Z


                          etc






                          share|improve this answer






























                            2














                            Hmm I don't think any of those whys are useful for a user story.



                            The why in this format is suppose to give insight to the developer so that they don't follow the letter of the spec rather than the spirit of it.



                            Additional your User type "Customer" is possibly unhelpful. I would go with..



                            As a: _BankAccountOwner_
                            I want to: pay money into my bank account,
                            from another banks debit card,
                            by filling in a form online
                            So that: I can later withdraw it.


                            Now the developer knows that its the BankAccountOwner type of customer that's doing this, so they can fit it in with their other stories.



                            They know the general specification of the thing we are trying to achieve, "deposit money via webpage"



                            And they know the expectation of the user, "They will be able to withdraw the money later" and so include any technical details that will be needed, (bit hard in this limited example but ..)




                            • It should go to the users bank account not someone else's

                            • It shouldn't automatically pay off loans or anything

                            • Don't accept money if the bank is going bust

                            • Warn the customer if for whatever reason they wont be able to withdraw for X days


                            The Why enables a briefer specification and can prompt questions from the developer where they might be required. "Other Story Y says we should always pay off the loans first?" etc



                            On your second point "how do you do stuff from such high level stories?" Well your example is pretty high level. You'll notice I had to add some details to it as well as the other changes. But generally you just do them and add more. eg



                            as a _BankAccountOwner_
                            I want to : pay money into my account
                            with a credit card... etc

                            as a _BankAccountOwner_
                            when paying money into my account
                            I want to : be told my current balance


                            In a case like banking you probably have a million and one requirements in advance, because they are so well known. But normally you either have an existing system in place which you are adding to, or you are starting from really basic "Sprint Zero" stuff



                            As a: _Bank_
                            I want to : have a website
                            so that : I can provide services to _BankAccountOwner_

                            As a: _Bank_
                            I want to : have an ssl cert for my website
                            so that : I comply with laws X, Y and Z


                            etc






                            share|improve this answer




























                              2












                              2








                              2







                              Hmm I don't think any of those whys are useful for a user story.



                              The why in this format is suppose to give insight to the developer so that they don't follow the letter of the spec rather than the spirit of it.



                              Additional your User type "Customer" is possibly unhelpful. I would go with..



                              As a: _BankAccountOwner_
                              I want to: pay money into my bank account,
                              from another banks debit card,
                              by filling in a form online
                              So that: I can later withdraw it.


                              Now the developer knows that its the BankAccountOwner type of customer that's doing this, so they can fit it in with their other stories.



                              They know the general specification of the thing we are trying to achieve, "deposit money via webpage"



                              And they know the expectation of the user, "They will be able to withdraw the money later" and so include any technical details that will be needed, (bit hard in this limited example but ..)




                              • It should go to the users bank account not someone else's

                              • It shouldn't automatically pay off loans or anything

                              • Don't accept money if the bank is going bust

                              • Warn the customer if for whatever reason they wont be able to withdraw for X days


                              The Why enables a briefer specification and can prompt questions from the developer where they might be required. "Other Story Y says we should always pay off the loans first?" etc



                              On your second point "how do you do stuff from such high level stories?" Well your example is pretty high level. You'll notice I had to add some details to it as well as the other changes. But generally you just do them and add more. eg



                              as a _BankAccountOwner_
                              I want to : pay money into my account
                              with a credit card... etc

                              as a _BankAccountOwner_
                              when paying money into my account
                              I want to : be told my current balance


                              In a case like banking you probably have a million and one requirements in advance, because they are so well known. But normally you either have an existing system in place which you are adding to, or you are starting from really basic "Sprint Zero" stuff



                              As a: _Bank_
                              I want to : have a website
                              so that : I can provide services to _BankAccountOwner_

                              As a: _Bank_
                              I want to : have an ssl cert for my website
                              so that : I comply with laws X, Y and Z


                              etc






                              share|improve this answer















                              Hmm I don't think any of those whys are useful for a user story.



                              The why in this format is suppose to give insight to the developer so that they don't follow the letter of the spec rather than the spirit of it.



                              Additional your User type "Customer" is possibly unhelpful. I would go with..



                              As a: _BankAccountOwner_
                              I want to: pay money into my bank account,
                              from another banks debit card,
                              by filling in a form online
                              So that: I can later withdraw it.


                              Now the developer knows that its the BankAccountOwner type of customer that's doing this, so they can fit it in with their other stories.



                              They know the general specification of the thing we are trying to achieve, "deposit money via webpage"



                              And they know the expectation of the user, "They will be able to withdraw the money later" and so include any technical details that will be needed, (bit hard in this limited example but ..)




                              • It should go to the users bank account not someone else's

                              • It shouldn't automatically pay off loans or anything

                              • Don't accept money if the bank is going bust

                              • Warn the customer if for whatever reason they wont be able to withdraw for X days


                              The Why enables a briefer specification and can prompt questions from the developer where they might be required. "Other Story Y says we should always pay off the loans first?" etc



                              On your second point "how do you do stuff from such high level stories?" Well your example is pretty high level. You'll notice I had to add some details to it as well as the other changes. But generally you just do them and add more. eg



                              as a _BankAccountOwner_
                              I want to : pay money into my account
                              with a credit card... etc

                              as a _BankAccountOwner_
                              when paying money into my account
                              I want to : be told my current balance


                              In a case like banking you probably have a million and one requirements in advance, because they are so well known. But normally you either have an existing system in place which you are adding to, or you are starting from really basic "Sprint Zero" stuff



                              As a: _Bank_
                              I want to : have a website
                              so that : I can provide services to _BankAccountOwner_

                              As a: _Bank_
                              I want to : have an ssl cert for my website
                              so that : I comply with laws X, Y and Z


                              etc







                              share|improve this answer














                              share|improve this answer



                              share|improve this answer








                              edited 6 hours ago

























                              answered 6 hours ago









                              EwanEwan

                              43.5k33697




                              43.5k33697























                                  1














                                  There are a few other answers, but I think this is missed in the others:



                                  The why here isn't why I want to deposit money in a bank account (as opposed to my mattress). The why is why I want to do it through the ATM. The answer to this can influence the functionality.



                                  For example, if the why is "so I can deposit and use my money even after the bank is closed" then simply taking the money or check without applying a deposit transaction to my bank account doesn't fulfill the user need.






                                  share|improve this answer




























                                    1














                                    There are a few other answers, but I think this is missed in the others:



                                    The why here isn't why I want to deposit money in a bank account (as opposed to my mattress). The why is why I want to do it through the ATM. The answer to this can influence the functionality.



                                    For example, if the why is "so I can deposit and use my money even after the bank is closed" then simply taking the money or check without applying a deposit transaction to my bank account doesn't fulfill the user need.






                                    share|improve this answer


























                                      1












                                      1








                                      1







                                      There are a few other answers, but I think this is missed in the others:



                                      The why here isn't why I want to deposit money in a bank account (as opposed to my mattress). The why is why I want to do it through the ATM. The answer to this can influence the functionality.



                                      For example, if the why is "so I can deposit and use my money even after the bank is closed" then simply taking the money or check without applying a deposit transaction to my bank account doesn't fulfill the user need.






                                      share|improve this answer













                                      There are a few other answers, but I think this is missed in the others:



                                      The why here isn't why I want to deposit money in a bank account (as opposed to my mattress). The why is why I want to do it through the ATM. The answer to this can influence the functionality.



                                      For example, if the why is "so I can deposit and use my money even after the bank is closed" then simply taking the money or check without applying a deposit transaction to my bank account doesn't fulfill the user need.







                                      share|improve this answer












                                      share|improve this answer



                                      share|improve this answer










                                      answered 4 hours ago









                                      DanielDaniel

                                      1,284310




                                      1,284310






























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