Stopping real property loss from eroding embankment Planned maintenance scheduled April 17/18,...
Is above average number of years spent on PhD considered a red flag in future academia or industry positions?
How is simplicity better than precision and clarity in prose?
Direct Experience of Meditation
Did the new image of black hole confirm the general theory of relativity?
Geometric mean and geometric standard deviation
3 doors, three guards, one stone
Can a non-EU citizen traveling with me come with me through the EU passport line?
Antler Helmet: Can it work?
Cauchy Sequence Characterized only By Directly Neighbouring Sequence Members
Passing functions in C++
What LEGO pieces have "real-world" functionality?
Simulating Exploding Dice
How many things? AとBがふたつ
What are the performance impacts of 'functional' Rust?
Blender game recording at the wrong time
The following signatures were invalid: EXPKEYSIG 1397BC53640DB551
Problem when applying foreach loop
Stop battery usage [Ubuntu 18]
What do I do if technical issues prevent me from filing my return on time?
Limit for e and 1/e
How can players take actions together that are impossible otherwise?
Area of a 2D convex hull
What is the largest species of polychaete?
How should I respond to a player wanting to catch a sword between their hands?
Stopping real property loss from eroding embankment
Planned maintenance scheduled April 17/18, 2019 at 00:00UTC (8:00pm US/Eastern)
Announcing the arrival of Valued Associate #679: Cesar Manara
Unicorn Meta Zoo #1: Why another podcast?How can I tell if stains are caused by a ceiling that is drying out, or if there is still a leak?Where could the water be coming from found in this hole my dogs dug?Information resources for Traditional Japanese HomesOn demand water heater flow lossHigh Water Bill - No LeaksToilet water valve tightened to OFF position but water keeps filling up tanklatent heat loss of water in pipeShower problem: Can't turn off hot waterOverkill from my Structural Engineer, can you check his drawings?Big vertical crack in brick wall and loose bricks
.everyoneloves__top-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__mid-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__bot-mid-leaderboard:empty{ margin-bottom:0;
}
Behind my house there is a very steep bank/slope that leads down to a decent-sized, slow moving creek about 10 - 12 ft wide. Unfortunately it meanders right behind my property at the base of this steep embankment:
When we bought our house almost ten years ago, it had not meandered nearly as much and we had significantly more embankment/real estate than we do now. Over the last decade the creek has cut deeper and deeper into the embankment and we now have lost about 8 - 10 feet of property at the top of the slope due to erosion of the embankment. We are now about to lose our fence which runs along the top of the embankment and I think this is finally the year that I need to do something to stop the erosion of loss of real estate (and our fence).
One thought I had was to see if I could (as impossible as it sounds) redirect the creek to flow straight rather than to meander. This would prevent the creek from cutting into the embankment any further. But it wouldn't stop erosion from rain which is now just as much a problem as the creek.
To fix the erosion issue, I'm wondering if there is any material I could apply/spray/whatever to the entire embankment? I know on the side of highways I often see rocky cliffs with some kind of retaining netting that helps "pack" in the rocks and loose debris from falling onto the road.
At this stage I'm just looking to review my options so I can weigh them and only then drill down into their logistics so I can figure out which way we're going to go.
So, options-wise, what are some solutions out there that could help with both problems (that is: preventing the creek from meandering any further, and erosion of the embankment due to the creek and rainfall)?
water structural engineering
add a comment |
Behind my house there is a very steep bank/slope that leads down to a decent-sized, slow moving creek about 10 - 12 ft wide. Unfortunately it meanders right behind my property at the base of this steep embankment:
When we bought our house almost ten years ago, it had not meandered nearly as much and we had significantly more embankment/real estate than we do now. Over the last decade the creek has cut deeper and deeper into the embankment and we now have lost about 8 - 10 feet of property at the top of the slope due to erosion of the embankment. We are now about to lose our fence which runs along the top of the embankment and I think this is finally the year that I need to do something to stop the erosion of loss of real estate (and our fence).
One thought I had was to see if I could (as impossible as it sounds) redirect the creek to flow straight rather than to meander. This would prevent the creek from cutting into the embankment any further. But it wouldn't stop erosion from rain which is now just as much a problem as the creek.
To fix the erosion issue, I'm wondering if there is any material I could apply/spray/whatever to the entire embankment? I know on the side of highways I often see rocky cliffs with some kind of retaining netting that helps "pack" in the rocks and loose debris from falling onto the road.
At this stage I'm just looking to review my options so I can weigh them and only then drill down into their logistics so I can figure out which way we're going to go.
So, options-wise, what are some solutions out there that could help with both problems (that is: preventing the creek from meandering any further, and erosion of the embankment due to the creek and rainfall)?
water structural engineering
Is the other side of the creek your property as well?
– UnhandledExcepSean
2 hours ago
add a comment |
Behind my house there is a very steep bank/slope that leads down to a decent-sized, slow moving creek about 10 - 12 ft wide. Unfortunately it meanders right behind my property at the base of this steep embankment:
When we bought our house almost ten years ago, it had not meandered nearly as much and we had significantly more embankment/real estate than we do now. Over the last decade the creek has cut deeper and deeper into the embankment and we now have lost about 8 - 10 feet of property at the top of the slope due to erosion of the embankment. We are now about to lose our fence which runs along the top of the embankment and I think this is finally the year that I need to do something to stop the erosion of loss of real estate (and our fence).
One thought I had was to see if I could (as impossible as it sounds) redirect the creek to flow straight rather than to meander. This would prevent the creek from cutting into the embankment any further. But it wouldn't stop erosion from rain which is now just as much a problem as the creek.
To fix the erosion issue, I'm wondering if there is any material I could apply/spray/whatever to the entire embankment? I know on the side of highways I often see rocky cliffs with some kind of retaining netting that helps "pack" in the rocks and loose debris from falling onto the road.
At this stage I'm just looking to review my options so I can weigh them and only then drill down into their logistics so I can figure out which way we're going to go.
So, options-wise, what are some solutions out there that could help with both problems (that is: preventing the creek from meandering any further, and erosion of the embankment due to the creek and rainfall)?
water structural engineering
Behind my house there is a very steep bank/slope that leads down to a decent-sized, slow moving creek about 10 - 12 ft wide. Unfortunately it meanders right behind my property at the base of this steep embankment:
When we bought our house almost ten years ago, it had not meandered nearly as much and we had significantly more embankment/real estate than we do now. Over the last decade the creek has cut deeper and deeper into the embankment and we now have lost about 8 - 10 feet of property at the top of the slope due to erosion of the embankment. We are now about to lose our fence which runs along the top of the embankment and I think this is finally the year that I need to do something to stop the erosion of loss of real estate (and our fence).
One thought I had was to see if I could (as impossible as it sounds) redirect the creek to flow straight rather than to meander. This would prevent the creek from cutting into the embankment any further. But it wouldn't stop erosion from rain which is now just as much a problem as the creek.
To fix the erosion issue, I'm wondering if there is any material I could apply/spray/whatever to the entire embankment? I know on the side of highways I often see rocky cliffs with some kind of retaining netting that helps "pack" in the rocks and loose debris from falling onto the road.
At this stage I'm just looking to review my options so I can weigh them and only then drill down into their logistics so I can figure out which way we're going to go.
So, options-wise, what are some solutions out there that could help with both problems (that is: preventing the creek from meandering any further, and erosion of the embankment due to the creek and rainfall)?
water structural engineering
water structural engineering
asked 2 hours ago
hotmeatballsouphotmeatballsoup
1103
1103
Is the other side of the creek your property as well?
– UnhandledExcepSean
2 hours ago
add a comment |
Is the other side of the creek your property as well?
– UnhandledExcepSean
2 hours ago
Is the other side of the creek your property as well?
– UnhandledExcepSean
2 hours ago
Is the other side of the creek your property as well?
– UnhandledExcepSean
2 hours ago
add a comment |
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
What I’ve seen commonly done is either large rocks or large chunks of concrete dumped to protect the area eroding.
You say it is slow moving, so I’m betting the erosion primarily happens during/after rains causing high, fast moving water. I think you’ll want pretty large rocks/concrete at the base (like maybe 2.5’ or 3’). If you own the other side, you can help straighten that section out by excavating that area.
add a comment |
This is often a complex legal situation due to regulations that affect (in many parts of the world) what you can do in or near a body or stream of water even if the land next to it or around it belongs to you; not to mention the fact that you are fighting with a force that has literally shaped the planet, and it's inexorable and quite capable of undoing many things you try to do to stop it, if, in fact, it is even legal for you to try to do those things. If the stream also is a property BOUNDARY, the legal implications of trying to move it get even more complex.
The "wire mesh" you describe is most probably gabions, which are empty wire cages which are stacked and filled (pretty much by hand, which has taken a novice contractor or two by surprise, to their cost) with rocks. Another common technique is "rip rap" which are simply large rocks layed over the face.
Your only legal option in many places would be to think about moving your fence back before it's undermined. Trying to get plant material established on the eroding slope is another approach, but many jurisdictions are less fond of people planting highly invasive species often selected in the past for that purpose, so you may need to stick with native/local species. Or, you may be able to perform some work after having hearings/meetings with the Authority Having Jurisdition over such activities in your area (conservation commission, department of environmental protection, etc.)
add a comment |
Been there , done that; my creek ( Plum Creek, Highland IN) was 30ft. width and embankment was 40 ft. high. I "coated" it with railroad ties, bricks, and many cuttings of trees and bushes. To reach my height I used 3 tiers of RR ties with slopes between. It required a lot of stuff and work. Yours looks much more manageable. Look for affordable rip-rap ;aka brick, cinder block, broken concrete, large size gravel, etc, to break the current . I used reject bricks from a nearby factory that sold them very cheap. For my larger project I used 24 yards/ about 48 tons. I suggest the mesh you have seen on highways and hold it in place with your rip-rap. Then stick a bunch of cuttings of trees that grow well in your location , early spring will work best . Then throw out a bunch ( 50 #) of seed like annual rye grass ( best in the fall ). If you like gardening it could be a great hobby area. Depending on how fast and high the stream gets ; two rows of railroad ties near the waterline will give you about 16" of "seawall". Depending on your budget , there are many options available for seawalls. If rainwater is eroding gullies ;they can be slowed with grass sod, but sod will need some sunlight.
you might want to think twice about railroad ties until you hear what the local waterways board, DEQ and envoronmental folks say about that. Creosote is considered hazardous by many. Concrete railroad ties, on the other hand, are a drug on the market and awesome for this but heavy beyond reason.
– Harper
12 mins ago
add a comment |
Your Answer
StackExchange.ready(function() {
var channelOptions = {
tags: "".split(" "),
id: "73"
};
initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);
StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function() {
// Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled) {
StackExchange.using("snippets", function() {
createEditor();
});
}
else {
createEditor();
}
});
function createEditor() {
StackExchange.prepareEditor({
heartbeatType: 'answer',
autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
convertImagesToLinks: false,
noModals: true,
showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
reputationToPostImages: null,
bindNavPrevention: true,
postfix: "",
imageUploader: {
brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
allowUrls: true
},
noCode: true, onDemand: true,
discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
});
}
});
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function () {
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fdiy.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f162114%2fstopping-real-property-loss-from-eroding-embankment%23new-answer', 'question_page');
}
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
What I’ve seen commonly done is either large rocks or large chunks of concrete dumped to protect the area eroding.
You say it is slow moving, so I’m betting the erosion primarily happens during/after rains causing high, fast moving water. I think you’ll want pretty large rocks/concrete at the base (like maybe 2.5’ or 3’). If you own the other side, you can help straighten that section out by excavating that area.
add a comment |
What I’ve seen commonly done is either large rocks or large chunks of concrete dumped to protect the area eroding.
You say it is slow moving, so I’m betting the erosion primarily happens during/after rains causing high, fast moving water. I think you’ll want pretty large rocks/concrete at the base (like maybe 2.5’ or 3’). If you own the other side, you can help straighten that section out by excavating that area.
add a comment |
What I’ve seen commonly done is either large rocks or large chunks of concrete dumped to protect the area eroding.
You say it is slow moving, so I’m betting the erosion primarily happens during/after rains causing high, fast moving water. I think you’ll want pretty large rocks/concrete at the base (like maybe 2.5’ or 3’). If you own the other side, you can help straighten that section out by excavating that area.
What I’ve seen commonly done is either large rocks or large chunks of concrete dumped to protect the area eroding.
You say it is slow moving, so I’m betting the erosion primarily happens during/after rains causing high, fast moving water. I think you’ll want pretty large rocks/concrete at the base (like maybe 2.5’ or 3’). If you own the other side, you can help straighten that section out by excavating that area.
answered 2 hours ago
UnhandledExcepSeanUnhandledExcepSean
1,68131624
1,68131624
add a comment |
add a comment |
This is often a complex legal situation due to regulations that affect (in many parts of the world) what you can do in or near a body or stream of water even if the land next to it or around it belongs to you; not to mention the fact that you are fighting with a force that has literally shaped the planet, and it's inexorable and quite capable of undoing many things you try to do to stop it, if, in fact, it is even legal for you to try to do those things. If the stream also is a property BOUNDARY, the legal implications of trying to move it get even more complex.
The "wire mesh" you describe is most probably gabions, which are empty wire cages which are stacked and filled (pretty much by hand, which has taken a novice contractor or two by surprise, to their cost) with rocks. Another common technique is "rip rap" which are simply large rocks layed over the face.
Your only legal option in many places would be to think about moving your fence back before it's undermined. Trying to get plant material established on the eroding slope is another approach, but many jurisdictions are less fond of people planting highly invasive species often selected in the past for that purpose, so you may need to stick with native/local species. Or, you may be able to perform some work after having hearings/meetings with the Authority Having Jurisdition over such activities in your area (conservation commission, department of environmental protection, etc.)
add a comment |
This is often a complex legal situation due to regulations that affect (in many parts of the world) what you can do in or near a body or stream of water even if the land next to it or around it belongs to you; not to mention the fact that you are fighting with a force that has literally shaped the planet, and it's inexorable and quite capable of undoing many things you try to do to stop it, if, in fact, it is even legal for you to try to do those things. If the stream also is a property BOUNDARY, the legal implications of trying to move it get even more complex.
The "wire mesh" you describe is most probably gabions, which are empty wire cages which are stacked and filled (pretty much by hand, which has taken a novice contractor or two by surprise, to their cost) with rocks. Another common technique is "rip rap" which are simply large rocks layed over the face.
Your only legal option in many places would be to think about moving your fence back before it's undermined. Trying to get plant material established on the eroding slope is another approach, but many jurisdictions are less fond of people planting highly invasive species often selected in the past for that purpose, so you may need to stick with native/local species. Or, you may be able to perform some work after having hearings/meetings with the Authority Having Jurisdition over such activities in your area (conservation commission, department of environmental protection, etc.)
add a comment |
This is often a complex legal situation due to regulations that affect (in many parts of the world) what you can do in or near a body or stream of water even if the land next to it or around it belongs to you; not to mention the fact that you are fighting with a force that has literally shaped the planet, and it's inexorable and quite capable of undoing many things you try to do to stop it, if, in fact, it is even legal for you to try to do those things. If the stream also is a property BOUNDARY, the legal implications of trying to move it get even more complex.
The "wire mesh" you describe is most probably gabions, which are empty wire cages which are stacked and filled (pretty much by hand, which has taken a novice contractor or two by surprise, to their cost) with rocks. Another common technique is "rip rap" which are simply large rocks layed over the face.
Your only legal option in many places would be to think about moving your fence back before it's undermined. Trying to get plant material established on the eroding slope is another approach, but many jurisdictions are less fond of people planting highly invasive species often selected in the past for that purpose, so you may need to stick with native/local species. Or, you may be able to perform some work after having hearings/meetings with the Authority Having Jurisdition over such activities in your area (conservation commission, department of environmental protection, etc.)
This is often a complex legal situation due to regulations that affect (in many parts of the world) what you can do in or near a body or stream of water even if the land next to it or around it belongs to you; not to mention the fact that you are fighting with a force that has literally shaped the planet, and it's inexorable and quite capable of undoing many things you try to do to stop it, if, in fact, it is even legal for you to try to do those things. If the stream also is a property BOUNDARY, the legal implications of trying to move it get even more complex.
The "wire mesh" you describe is most probably gabions, which are empty wire cages which are stacked and filled (pretty much by hand, which has taken a novice contractor or two by surprise, to their cost) with rocks. Another common technique is "rip rap" which are simply large rocks layed over the face.
Your only legal option in many places would be to think about moving your fence back before it's undermined. Trying to get plant material established on the eroding slope is another approach, but many jurisdictions are less fond of people planting highly invasive species often selected in the past for that purpose, so you may need to stick with native/local species. Or, you may be able to perform some work after having hearings/meetings with the Authority Having Jurisdition over such activities in your area (conservation commission, department of environmental protection, etc.)
edited 1 hour ago
answered 1 hour ago
EcnerwalEcnerwal
55.4k23991
55.4k23991
add a comment |
add a comment |
Been there , done that; my creek ( Plum Creek, Highland IN) was 30ft. width and embankment was 40 ft. high. I "coated" it with railroad ties, bricks, and many cuttings of trees and bushes. To reach my height I used 3 tiers of RR ties with slopes between. It required a lot of stuff and work. Yours looks much more manageable. Look for affordable rip-rap ;aka brick, cinder block, broken concrete, large size gravel, etc, to break the current . I used reject bricks from a nearby factory that sold them very cheap. For my larger project I used 24 yards/ about 48 tons. I suggest the mesh you have seen on highways and hold it in place with your rip-rap. Then stick a bunch of cuttings of trees that grow well in your location , early spring will work best . Then throw out a bunch ( 50 #) of seed like annual rye grass ( best in the fall ). If you like gardening it could be a great hobby area. Depending on how fast and high the stream gets ; two rows of railroad ties near the waterline will give you about 16" of "seawall". Depending on your budget , there are many options available for seawalls. If rainwater is eroding gullies ;they can be slowed with grass sod, but sod will need some sunlight.
you might want to think twice about railroad ties until you hear what the local waterways board, DEQ and envoronmental folks say about that. Creosote is considered hazardous by many. Concrete railroad ties, on the other hand, are a drug on the market and awesome for this but heavy beyond reason.
– Harper
12 mins ago
add a comment |
Been there , done that; my creek ( Plum Creek, Highland IN) was 30ft. width and embankment was 40 ft. high. I "coated" it with railroad ties, bricks, and many cuttings of trees and bushes. To reach my height I used 3 tiers of RR ties with slopes between. It required a lot of stuff and work. Yours looks much more manageable. Look for affordable rip-rap ;aka brick, cinder block, broken concrete, large size gravel, etc, to break the current . I used reject bricks from a nearby factory that sold them very cheap. For my larger project I used 24 yards/ about 48 tons. I suggest the mesh you have seen on highways and hold it in place with your rip-rap. Then stick a bunch of cuttings of trees that grow well in your location , early spring will work best . Then throw out a bunch ( 50 #) of seed like annual rye grass ( best in the fall ). If you like gardening it could be a great hobby area. Depending on how fast and high the stream gets ; two rows of railroad ties near the waterline will give you about 16" of "seawall". Depending on your budget , there are many options available for seawalls. If rainwater is eroding gullies ;they can be slowed with grass sod, but sod will need some sunlight.
you might want to think twice about railroad ties until you hear what the local waterways board, DEQ and envoronmental folks say about that. Creosote is considered hazardous by many. Concrete railroad ties, on the other hand, are a drug on the market and awesome for this but heavy beyond reason.
– Harper
12 mins ago
add a comment |
Been there , done that; my creek ( Plum Creek, Highland IN) was 30ft. width and embankment was 40 ft. high. I "coated" it with railroad ties, bricks, and many cuttings of trees and bushes. To reach my height I used 3 tiers of RR ties with slopes between. It required a lot of stuff and work. Yours looks much more manageable. Look for affordable rip-rap ;aka brick, cinder block, broken concrete, large size gravel, etc, to break the current . I used reject bricks from a nearby factory that sold them very cheap. For my larger project I used 24 yards/ about 48 tons. I suggest the mesh you have seen on highways and hold it in place with your rip-rap. Then stick a bunch of cuttings of trees that grow well in your location , early spring will work best . Then throw out a bunch ( 50 #) of seed like annual rye grass ( best in the fall ). If you like gardening it could be a great hobby area. Depending on how fast and high the stream gets ; two rows of railroad ties near the waterline will give you about 16" of "seawall". Depending on your budget , there are many options available for seawalls. If rainwater is eroding gullies ;they can be slowed with grass sod, but sod will need some sunlight.
Been there , done that; my creek ( Plum Creek, Highland IN) was 30ft. width and embankment was 40 ft. high. I "coated" it with railroad ties, bricks, and many cuttings of trees and bushes. To reach my height I used 3 tiers of RR ties with slopes between. It required a lot of stuff and work. Yours looks much more manageable. Look for affordable rip-rap ;aka brick, cinder block, broken concrete, large size gravel, etc, to break the current . I used reject bricks from a nearby factory that sold them very cheap. For my larger project I used 24 yards/ about 48 tons. I suggest the mesh you have seen on highways and hold it in place with your rip-rap. Then stick a bunch of cuttings of trees that grow well in your location , early spring will work best . Then throw out a bunch ( 50 #) of seed like annual rye grass ( best in the fall ). If you like gardening it could be a great hobby area. Depending on how fast and high the stream gets ; two rows of railroad ties near the waterline will give you about 16" of "seawall". Depending on your budget , there are many options available for seawalls. If rainwater is eroding gullies ;they can be slowed with grass sod, but sod will need some sunlight.
answered 1 hour ago
blacksmith37blacksmith37
1,54828
1,54828
you might want to think twice about railroad ties until you hear what the local waterways board, DEQ and envoronmental folks say about that. Creosote is considered hazardous by many. Concrete railroad ties, on the other hand, are a drug on the market and awesome for this but heavy beyond reason.
– Harper
12 mins ago
add a comment |
you might want to think twice about railroad ties until you hear what the local waterways board, DEQ and envoronmental folks say about that. Creosote is considered hazardous by many. Concrete railroad ties, on the other hand, are a drug on the market and awesome for this but heavy beyond reason.
– Harper
12 mins ago
you might want to think twice about railroad ties until you hear what the local waterways board, DEQ and envoronmental folks say about that. Creosote is considered hazardous by many. Concrete railroad ties, on the other hand, are a drug on the market and awesome for this but heavy beyond reason.
– Harper
12 mins ago
you might want to think twice about railroad ties until you hear what the local waterways board, DEQ and envoronmental folks say about that. Creosote is considered hazardous by many. Concrete railroad ties, on the other hand, are a drug on the market and awesome for this but heavy beyond reason.
– Harper
12 mins ago
add a comment |
Thanks for contributing an answer to Home Improvement Stack Exchange!
- Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!
But avoid …
- Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.
- Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.
To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function () {
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fdiy.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f162114%2fstopping-real-property-loss-from-eroding-embankment%23new-answer', 'question_page');
}
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Is the other side of the creek your property as well?
– UnhandledExcepSean
2 hours ago