Why is button three on trumpet almost never used alone?Trouble with schilke trumpet valvesWhy do trumpet...
Everyone is beautiful
How do creatures spend Hit Dice after a short rest (if they can do so)?
Slow moving projectiles from a hand-held weapon - how do they reach the target?
How can animals be objects of ethics without being subjects as well?
Trouble with Impersonal Passive Voice usage
What makes the Forgotten Realms "forgotten"?
Can pricing be copyrighted?
Is it a fallacy if someone claims they need an explanation for every word of your argument to the point where they don't understand common terms?
How can I improve my fireworks photography?
Does Windows 10's telemetry include sending *.doc files if Word crashed?
Getting a UK passport renewed when you have dual nationality and a different name in your second country?
Why zero tolerance on nudity in space?
Can we use the stored gravitational potential energy of a building to produce power?
page split between longtable caption and table
Do authors have to be politically correct in article-writing?
Tikzing a circled star
Can I become debt free or should I file for bankruptcy? How do I manage my debt and finances?
Manipulating a general length function
Eww, those bytes are gross
Overfitting and Underfitting
How is the Incom shipyard still in business?
How to acknowledge an embarrassing job interview, now that I work directly with the interviewer?
Can you earn endless XP using a Flameskull and its self-revival feature?
Why avoid shared user accounts?
Why is button three on trumpet almost never used alone?
Trouble with schilke trumpet valvesWhy do trumpet valves shift down and not up?Differences between trumpet mouth piecesTrumpet practice routine for a beginnerPracticing pitch on trumpetWhat's this thing attached to trumpet?Why a common Trumpet is in B flat pitch ?Trumpet - Trouble with high notes?Trumpet and bracesTrumpet Peculiar Frequency spectrum
The trumpet buttons 1,2 and 3 lowers the pitch by 2,1 and 3 halfsteps. So pressing button 1 and 2 gives the same result as only pressing the third button.
So why is the third button so rarely used alone? Why press two buttons instead if you don't have to? I have seen it be used for fast drills that would be almost impossible otherwise, but I cannot understand why it isn't the default for playing the notes E and A.
technique trumpet
asked 3 hours ago
BromanBroman
38213
add a comment |
The trumpet buttons 1,2 and 3 lowers the pitch by 2,1 and 3 halfsteps. So pressing button 1 and 2 gives the same result as only pressing the third button.
So why is the third button so rarely used alone? Why press two buttons instead if you don't have to? I have seen it be used for fast drills that would be almost impossible otherwise, but I cannot understand why it isn't the default for playing the notes E and A.
technique trumpet
asked 3 hours ago
BromanBroman
38213
In my youth and during the military service I always used the fingersttings like you discribed. One reason is mentioned in my answer. Another reason could be that most pieces for brassbands are in the keys of G,C,F or Bb. and the fingersetting 1,2 insread of 3 is more comfortable. After a time out of some dekades I’ve started to practice my instrument again and in a Euphonium Bb Solo in D (actually C) I use more often the 3rd valve exactly because of the reasons you’re counting.
– Albrecht Hügli
2 hours ago
add a comment |
The trumpet buttons 1,2 and 3 lowers the pitch by 2,1 and 3 halfsteps. So pressing button 1 and 2 gives the same result as only pressing the third button.
So why is the third button so rarely used alone? Why press two buttons instead if you don't have to? I have seen it be used for fast drills that would be almost impossible otherwise, but I cannot understand why it isn't the default for playing the notes E and A.
technique trumpet
asked 3 hours ago
BromanBroman
38213
The trumpet buttons 1,2 and 3 lowers the pitch by 2,1 and 3 halfsteps. So pressing button 1 and 2 gives the same result as only pressing the third button.
So why is the third button so rarely used alone? Why press two buttons instead if you don't have to? I have seen it be used for fast drills that would be almost impossible otherwise, but I cannot understand why it isn't the default for playing the notes E and A.
technique trumpet
technique trumpet
asked 3 hours ago
BromanBroman
38213
asked 3 hours ago
BromanBroman
38213
asked 3 hours ago
BromanBroman
38213
asked 3 hours ago
BromanBroman
38213
asked 3 hours ago
BromanBroman
38213
38213
In my youth and during the military service I always used the fingersttings like you discribed. One reason is mentioned in my answer. Another reason could be that most pieces for brassbands are in the keys of G,C,F or Bb. and the fingersetting 1,2 insread of 3 is more comfortable. After a time out of some dekades I’ve started to practice my instrument again and in a Euphonium Bb Solo in D (actually C) I use more often the 3rd valve exactly because of the reasons you’re counting.
– Albrecht Hügli
2 hours ago
add a comment |
In my youth and during the military service I always used the fingersttings like you discribed. One reason is mentioned in my answer. Another reason could be that most pieces for brassbands are in the keys of G,C,F or Bb. and the fingersetting 1,2 insread of 3 is more comfortable. After a time out of some dekades I’ve started to practice my instrument again and in a Euphonium Bb Solo in D (actually C) I use more often the 3rd valve exactly because of the reasons you’re counting.
– Albrecht Hügli
2 hours ago
In my youth and during the military service I always used the fingersttings like you discribed. One reason is mentioned in my answer. Another reason could be that most pieces for brassbands are in the keys of G,C,F or Bb. and the fingersetting 1,2 insread of 3 is more comfortable. After a time out of some dekades I’ve started to practice my instrument again and in a Euphonium Bb Solo in D (actually C) I use more often the 3rd valve exactly because of the reasons you’re counting.
– Albrecht Hügli
2 hours ago
In my youth and during the military service I always used the fingersttings like you discribed. One reason is mentioned in my answer. Another reason could be that most pieces for brassbands are in the keys of G,C,F or Bb. and the fingersetting 1,2 insread of 3 is more comfortable. After a time out of some dekades I’ve started to practice my instrument again and in a Euphonium Bb Solo in D (actually C) I use more often the 3rd valve exactly because of the reasons you’re counting.
– Albrecht Hügli
2 hours ago
add a comment |
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
Button=Valve (wind instrument)
Component of brass instruments
Valves are used on brass instruments to change the tube length to allow a chromatic play. When the valve is actuated, the air is passed through an additional pipe loop of a certain length, extending (usually) the air column of the instrument.
The first valve lowers the natural tone by two semitones (12.4%),
The second valve lowers the natural tone by one semitone (6.0%),
The third valve lowers the natural tone by three semitones (19.1%),
Intonation problems:
If two or more valves are used in combination, the intonation of the sound heard does not correspond to the calculated sum of its intervals, but to a tone that is too high. This is because the additional tube length switched by each valve into the resonator body is only calculated to decrease the air column of the open instrument by a certain interval, but does not take into account the air column already extended by another valve.
The intonation when using multiple valves at the same time is therefore basically more or less unclean if no compensation takes place in any form. Quintessence from this realization: The fewer valves are needed, the better the tone is right.
Possible solutions:
There are basically as few valves as possible to use.
With the small differences of the "short" valve combination (1 + 2), the compensation is usually done by ear via the approach.
As you’re supposing:
The use of the clean handle 3 would be desirable, but in practice usually not possible, since in the fingering tables of the instrumental schools and thus in the training, the combination 1 + 2 in the foreground.
For instruments of rather short overall length like the trumpet, the difference in combinations with the third or first valve is usually compensated by simply pulling out the valve train of the third valve.
Therefore cornets, wing horns as well as high-quality tubes and euphoniums have often already standard triggers as an additional intonation aid:
A trigger means a compensation by a device that makes it easier to vary the length of a valve train. This device, also called intonation pusher or equalizer, consists either of a ring connected to the tuning cable or a U-shaped "saddle" which is moved with a finger or of a mechanical lever which is pressed with a finger and usually a return spring has.
answered 2 hours ago
Albrecht HügliAlbrecht Hügli
2,574220
add a comment |
Because valve #3 is normally tuned slightly flatter than #1 + #2 (and will often have a finger mechanism allowing it to be even flatter). This is to do with the physical fact that each semitone down requires the tube length to increase by the same PROPORTION, not by the same fixed length.
The real situation is complicated by most instruments having finger-operated slides on valves #1 and #3, allowing them to be lengthened. But #3 is still normally adjusted to be longer than the sum of #1 and #2, so it would make notes normally played by #1 + #2 too flat.
On a trumpet without 'triggers', low C# and F#, the only notes requiring #1 + #2 + #3, are, if not un-usable, certainly difficult to play in tune.
answered 1 hour ago
Laurence PayneLaurence Payne
35.1k1666
add a comment |
Your Answer
StackExchange.ready(function() {
var channelOptions = {
tags: "".split(" "),
id: "240"
};
initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);
StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function() {
// Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled) {
StackExchange.using("snippets", function() {
createEditor();
});
}
else {
createEditor();
}
});
function createEditor() {
StackExchange.prepareEditor({
heartbeatType: 'answer',
autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
convertImagesToLinks: false,
noModals: true,
showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
reputationToPostImages: null,
bindNavPrevention: true,
postfix: "",
imageUploader: {
brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
allowUrls: true
},
noCode: true, onDemand: true,
discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
});
}
});
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function () {
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmusic.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f80795%2fwhy-is-button-three-on-trumpet-almost-never-used-alone%23new-answer', 'question_page');
}
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
Button=Valve (wind instrument)
Component of brass instruments
Valves are used on brass instruments to change the tube length to allow a chromatic play. When the valve is actuated, the air is passed through an additional pipe loop of a certain length, extending (usually) the air column of the instrument.
The first valve lowers the natural tone by two semitones (12.4%),
The second valve lowers the natural tone by one semitone (6.0%),
The third valve lowers the natural tone by three semitones (19.1%),
Intonation problems:
If two or more valves are used in combination, the intonation of the sound heard does not correspond to the calculated sum of its intervals, but to a tone that is too high. This is because the additional tube length switched by each valve into the resonator body is only calculated to decrease the air column of the open instrument by a certain interval, but does not take into account the air column already extended by another valve.
The intonation when using multiple valves at the same time is therefore basically more or less unclean if no compensation takes place in any form. Quintessence from this realization: The fewer valves are needed, the better the tone is right.
Possible solutions:
There are basically as few valves as possible to use.
With the small differences of the "short" valve combination (1 + 2), the compensation is usually done by ear via the approach.
As you’re supposing:
The use of the clean handle 3 would be desirable, but in practice usually not possible, since in the fingering tables of the instrumental schools and thus in the training, the combination 1 + 2 in the foreground.
For instruments of rather short overall length like the trumpet, the difference in combinations with the third or first valve is usually compensated by simply pulling out the valve train of the third valve.
Therefore cornets, wing horns as well as high-quality tubes and euphoniums have often already standard triggers as an additional intonation aid:
A trigger means a compensation by a device that makes it easier to vary the length of a valve train. This device, also called intonation pusher or equalizer, consists either of a ring connected to the tuning cable or a U-shaped "saddle" which is moved with a finger or of a mechanical lever which is pressed with a finger and usually a return spring has.
answered 2 hours ago
Albrecht HügliAlbrecht Hügli
2,574220
add a comment |
Button=Valve (wind instrument)
Component of brass instruments
Valves are used on brass instruments to change the tube length to allow a chromatic play. When the valve is actuated, the air is passed through an additional pipe loop of a certain length, extending (usually) the air column of the instrument.
The first valve lowers the natural tone by two semitones (12.4%),
The second valve lowers the natural tone by one semitone (6.0%),
The third valve lowers the natural tone by three semitones (19.1%),
Intonation problems:
If two or more valves are used in combination, the intonation of the sound heard does not correspond to the calculated sum of its intervals, but to a tone that is too high. This is because the additional tube length switched by each valve into the resonator body is only calculated to decrease the air column of the open instrument by a certain interval, but does not take into account the air column already extended by another valve.
The intonation when using multiple valves at the same time is therefore basically more or less unclean if no compensation takes place in any form. Quintessence from this realization: The fewer valves are needed, the better the tone is right.
Possible solutions:
There are basically as few valves as possible to use.
With the small differences of the "short" valve combination (1 + 2), the compensation is usually done by ear via the approach.
As you’re supposing:
The use of the clean handle 3 would be desirable, but in practice usually not possible, since in the fingering tables of the instrumental schools and thus in the training, the combination 1 + 2 in the foreground.
For instruments of rather short overall length like the trumpet, the difference in combinations with the third or first valve is usually compensated by simply pulling out the valve train of the third valve.
Therefore cornets, wing horns as well as high-quality tubes and euphoniums have often already standard triggers as an additional intonation aid:
A trigger means a compensation by a device that makes it easier to vary the length of a valve train. This device, also called intonation pusher or equalizer, consists either of a ring connected to the tuning cable or a U-shaped "saddle" which is moved with a finger or of a mechanical lever which is pressed with a finger and usually a return spring has.
answered 2 hours ago
Albrecht HügliAlbrecht Hügli
2,574220
add a comment |
Button=Valve (wind instrument)
Component of brass instruments
Valves are used on brass instruments to change the tube length to allow a chromatic play. When the valve is actuated, the air is passed through an additional pipe loop of a certain length, extending (usually) the air column of the instrument.
The first valve lowers the natural tone by two semitones (12.4%),
The second valve lowers the natural tone by one semitone (6.0%),
The third valve lowers the natural tone by three semitones (19.1%),
Intonation problems:
If two or more valves are used in combination, the intonation of the sound heard does not correspond to the calculated sum of its intervals, but to a tone that is too high. This is because the additional tube length switched by each valve into the resonator body is only calculated to decrease the air column of the open instrument by a certain interval, but does not take into account the air column already extended by another valve.
The intonation when using multiple valves at the same time is therefore basically more or less unclean if no compensation takes place in any form. Quintessence from this realization: The fewer valves are needed, the better the tone is right.
Possible solutions:
There are basically as few valves as possible to use.
With the small differences of the "short" valve combination (1 + 2), the compensation is usually done by ear via the approach.
As you’re supposing:
The use of the clean handle 3 would be desirable, but in practice usually not possible, since in the fingering tables of the instrumental schools and thus in the training, the combination 1 + 2 in the foreground.
For instruments of rather short overall length like the trumpet, the difference in combinations with the third or first valve is usually compensated by simply pulling out the valve train of the third valve.
Therefore cornets, wing horns as well as high-quality tubes and euphoniums have often already standard triggers as an additional intonation aid:
A trigger means a compensation by a device that makes it easier to vary the length of a valve train. This device, also called intonation pusher or equalizer, consists either of a ring connected to the tuning cable or a U-shaped "saddle" which is moved with a finger or of a mechanical lever which is pressed with a finger and usually a return spring has.
answered 2 hours ago
Albrecht HügliAlbrecht Hügli
2,574220
Button=Valve (wind instrument)
Component of brass instruments
Valves are used on brass instruments to change the tube length to allow a chromatic play. When the valve is actuated, the air is passed through an additional pipe loop of a certain length, extending (usually) the air column of the instrument.
The first valve lowers the natural tone by two semitones (12.4%),
The second valve lowers the natural tone by one semitone (6.0%),
The third valve lowers the natural tone by three semitones (19.1%),
Intonation problems:
If two or more valves are used in combination, the intonation of the sound heard does not correspond to the calculated sum of its intervals, but to a tone that is too high. This is because the additional tube length switched by each valve into the resonator body is only calculated to decrease the air column of the open instrument by a certain interval, but does not take into account the air column already extended by another valve.
The intonation when using multiple valves at the same time is therefore basically more or less unclean if no compensation takes place in any form. Quintessence from this realization: The fewer valves are needed, the better the tone is right.
Possible solutions:
There are basically as few valves as possible to use.
With the small differences of the "short" valve combination (1 + 2), the compensation is usually done by ear via the approach.
As you’re supposing:
The use of the clean handle 3 would be desirable, but in practice usually not possible, since in the fingering tables of the instrumental schools and thus in the training, the combination 1 + 2 in the foreground.
For instruments of rather short overall length like the trumpet, the difference in combinations with the third or first valve is usually compensated by simply pulling out the valve train of the third valve.
Therefore cornets, wing horns as well as high-quality tubes and euphoniums have often already standard triggers as an additional intonation aid:
A trigger means a compensation by a device that makes it easier to vary the length of a valve train. This device, also called intonation pusher or equalizer, consists either of a ring connected to the tuning cable or a U-shaped "saddle" which is moved with a finger or of a mechanical lever which is pressed with a finger and usually a return spring has.
answered 2 hours ago
Albrecht HügliAlbrecht Hügli
2,574220
answered 2 hours ago
Albrecht HügliAlbrecht Hügli
2,574220
answered 2 hours ago
Albrecht HügliAlbrecht Hügli
2,574220
answered 2 hours ago
Albrecht HügliAlbrecht Hügli
2,574220
2,574220
add a comment |
add a comment |
Because valve #3 is normally tuned slightly flatter than #1 + #2 (and will often have a finger mechanism allowing it to be even flatter). This is to do with the physical fact that each semitone down requires the tube length to increase by the same PROPORTION, not by the same fixed length.
The real situation is complicated by most instruments having finger-operated slides on valves #1 and #3, allowing them to be lengthened. But #3 is still normally adjusted to be longer than the sum of #1 and #2, so it would make notes normally played by #1 + #2 too flat.
On a trumpet without 'triggers', low C# and F#, the only notes requiring #1 + #2 + #3, are, if not un-usable, certainly difficult to play in tune.
answered 1 hour ago
Laurence PayneLaurence Payne
35.1k1666
add a comment |
Because valve #3 is normally tuned slightly flatter than #1 + #2 (and will often have a finger mechanism allowing it to be even flatter). This is to do with the physical fact that each semitone down requires the tube length to increase by the same PROPORTION, not by the same fixed length.
The real situation is complicated by most instruments having finger-operated slides on valves #1 and #3, allowing them to be lengthened. But #3 is still normally adjusted to be longer than the sum of #1 and #2, so it would make notes normally played by #1 + #2 too flat.
On a trumpet without 'triggers', low C# and F#, the only notes requiring #1 + #2 + #3, are, if not un-usable, certainly difficult to play in tune.
answered 1 hour ago
Laurence PayneLaurence Payne
35.1k1666
add a comment |
Because valve #3 is normally tuned slightly flatter than #1 + #2 (and will often have a finger mechanism allowing it to be even flatter). This is to do with the physical fact that each semitone down requires the tube length to increase by the same PROPORTION, not by the same fixed length.
The real situation is complicated by most instruments having finger-operated slides on valves #1 and #3, allowing them to be lengthened. But #3 is still normally adjusted to be longer than the sum of #1 and #2, so it would make notes normally played by #1 + #2 too flat.
On a trumpet without 'triggers', low C# and F#, the only notes requiring #1 + #2 + #3, are, if not un-usable, certainly difficult to play in tune.
answered 1 hour ago
Laurence PayneLaurence Payne
35.1k1666
Because valve #3 is normally tuned slightly flatter than #1 + #2 (and will often have a finger mechanism allowing it to be even flatter). This is to do with the physical fact that each semitone down requires the tube length to increase by the same PROPORTION, not by the same fixed length.
The real situation is complicated by most instruments having finger-operated slides on valves #1 and #3, allowing them to be lengthened. But #3 is still normally adjusted to be longer than the sum of #1 and #2, so it would make notes normally played by #1 + #2 too flat.
On a trumpet without 'triggers', low C# and F#, the only notes requiring #1 + #2 + #3, are, if not un-usable, certainly difficult to play in tune.
answered 1 hour ago
Laurence PayneLaurence Payne
35.1k1666
answered 1 hour ago
Laurence PayneLaurence Payne
35.1k1666
answered 1 hour ago
Laurence PayneLaurence Payne
35.1k1666
answered 1 hour ago
Laurence PayneLaurence Payne
35.1k1666
35.1k1666
add a comment |
add a comment |
Thanks for contributing an answer to Music: Practice & Theory Stack Exchange!
- Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!
But avoid …
- Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.
- Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.
To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function () {
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmusic.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f80795%2fwhy-is-button-three-on-trumpet-almost-never-used-alone%23new-answer', 'question_page');
}
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
In my youth and during the military service I always used the fingersttings like you discribed. One reason is mentioned in my answer. Another reason could be that most pieces for brassbands are in the keys of G,C,F or Bb. and the fingersetting 1,2 insread of 3 is more comfortable. After a time out of some dekades I’ve started to practice my instrument again and in a Euphonium Bb Solo in D (actually C) I use more often the 3rd valve exactly because of the reasons you’re counting.
– Albrecht Hügli
2 hours ago